Trying to get my Dad out of care home but bank account frozen - a real mess

Section62

brianposter said:

So why is that line on the form if you are expected to ignore it ?

People are expected to use common sense.  Which avoids having to make the checklist excessively complicated by covering every eventuality.  The drive for plain language sometimes means that simplicity triumphs over strict legal accuracy.

It is clear from the context that other people are allowed to physically complete the form on behalf of the donor, provided the content is what the donor wants, that they understand it, and that they sign the form themselves.

brianposter

Section62 said:

brianposter said:

So why is that line on the form if you are expected to ignore it ?

People are expected to use common sense.  Which avoids having to make the checklist excessively complicated by covering every eventuality.  The drive for plain language sometimes means that simplicity triumphs over strict legal accuracy.

I once rang HMRC about an ambiguous clause in one of their advice notes. The advice I was given was pretty much that which you have provided - people are expected to use their common sense.

The next time I rang HMRC on the same subject the agent became very annoyed as soon as I quoted the previous phone call and it could have proved very expensive.

You need to be very careful about using common sense when dealing with officialdom.

Section62

brianposter said:

Section62 said:

brianposter said:

So why is that line on the form if you are expected to ignore it ?

People are expected to use common sense.  Which avoids having to make the checklist excessively complicated by covering every eventuality.  The drive for plain language sometimes means that simplicity triumphs over strict legal accuracy.

I once rang HMRC about an ambiguous clause in one of their advice notes. The advice I was given was pretty much that which you have provided - people are expected to use their common sense.

The next time I rang HMRC on the same subject the agent became very annoyed as soon as I quoted the previous phone call and it could have proved very expensive.

You need to be very careful about using common sense when dealing with officialdom.

Sometimes, but not when the common sense is based on what officialdom have said on the document, and the bit which is confusing you is in a page on which officialdom have said "This page is not part of the form".

The words "The donor filled in sections 1 to 7" are guidance, not an instruction. This should be obvious, not least because three of the seven sections are optional and the donor, or someone on their behalf, doesn't have to fill them in.

You said earlier "Perhaps you clever people would care to explain what this paragraph means." - you've had several answers to that now, so it isn't clear why you are still going with the assertion only the donor can complete the form.

Barkin

brianposter said:

So why is that line on the form if you are expected to ignore it ?

When you talk of ignoring that line on the form, you're referring to the checklist page that states at the bottom that it isn't part of the form, and at the top that you don't have to use it.

Yes?

Barkin

You can lead a horse to water...

As Duncan Bannatyne often said - "I'm out".

brianposter

Great. Saves  ........

Section62

[Quoted post removed by Forum Team]

Which is the indefensible part?  That people can help with the physical process of completing a form someone might struggle to complete themselves, or that OPG use plain language in an optional checklist, or is it something else?

Answering your question would be easier if we can better understand your concerns about this.

sheramber

brianposter said:

So why is that line on the form if you are expected to ignore it ?

It does not say you must hold the pen and write on the form. Sometimes a person who is mentally capable cannot hold a pen or write. My gran was one, die to arthritis crippling her fingers. 

It does say you must provide the information, so in that scenario you are filling in the information written on the form.

If you want to insist on writing on your own form that’s fine.

But allow others to follow the official guidance given which states someone else can complete the form as long as you provide the information. 

brianposter

Could you point to that official guidance.

BooJewels

From this page:  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney/lp12-make-and-register-your-lasting-power-of-attorney-a-guide-web-version#make-your-lpa

Can someone help you fill in the form?

Yes. However, if anyone else is filling the form in for you, you must still choose what goes into your LPA. Only you can give others the power to make decisions with your LPA on your behalf.