Trying to get my Dad out of care home but bank account frozen - a real mess

Mark6701

Hi all,

Wonder if anyone has advice on the horrible situation we find out selves in.

A few weeks ago my Dad fractured his ankle at home and had surgery. All went well.

Before discharge we were persuaded that rehab care would be better than going straight home. So my mum and I agreed to that.

A few days ago in the care home they put a DOLS on him as he's slightly confused with being in hospital for quite a few weeks (not dementia).

To add to that unfortunately we have no power of attorney and the only way we can get him home now is via social services who will want a care plan as to how we can pay for any care at home.

As my mum and dad have a joint bank account it'll likely be frozen due to not having a LPA in place.

I'd like to know how's the best way to explain to social services is how we can fund any home care they require (we have the financial means to do it) but will social services accept any plan if mum and dad's account is frozen?

Any help on how to itemise how we will pay for things is very much appreciated as we are desperate because of the situation we find ourselves in

Best regards
Mark

xylophone

This is a standard joint account?

Why should it be frozen?

Your mother presumably has full and unrestricted access to the account?  Therefore whether she or your father pay into the account,

under the terms of the account (to which both must have agreed on opening) either or both may use all the money that is in it?

Therefore the money should be available for your father's care?

Has your father had a full assessment of his capacity by a fully qualified medical practitioner?

eskbanker

Mark6701 said:

[title] Trying to get my Dad out of care home but bank account frozen - a real mess

[...]

As my mum and dad have a joint bank account it'll likely be frozen due to not having a LPA in place.

Is the account frozen or not?

Keep_pedalling

Rest assured not having a LPA in place will not cause the joint account to be frozen, the bank do not even need to know what has happened to your father. 

I would strongly recommend that your parents do get LPAs put in place as you don’t not know what the future holds for either of them as regards to their ability to manage their own affairs. You should put yours in place as well. 

Mark6701

xylophone said:

This is a standard joint account?

Why should it be frozen?

Your mother presumably has full and unrestricted access to the account?  Therefore whether she or your father pay into the account,

under the terms of the account (to which both must have agreed on opening) either or both may use all the money that is in it?

Therefore the money should be available for your father's care?

Has your father had a full assessment of his capacity by a fully qualified medical practitioner?

Apparently if one person is deemed to have lost any sort of mental capacity in a joint bank account it can be frozen 

Mark6701

Should add if there is no legal power of attorney in place. 

Zanderman

Mark6701 said:

xylophone said:

This is a standard joint account?

Why should it be frozen?

Your mother presumably has full and unrestricted access to the account?  Therefore whether she or your father pay into the account,

under the terms of the account (to which both must have agreed on opening) either or both may use all the money that is in it?

Therefore the money should be available for your father's care?

Has your father had a full assessment of his capacity by a fully qualified medical practitioner?

Apparently if one person is deemed to have lost any sort of mental capacity in a joint bank account it can be frozen 

Only if the bank know. And only if he really has lost capacity.

Also who has been appointed to be his representative under the DOLS? It should be you or your mother.

Keep_pedalling

Mark6701 said:

xylophone said:

This is a standard joint account?

Why should it be frozen?

Your mother presumably has full and unrestricted access to the account?  Therefore whether she or your father pay into the account,

under the terms of the account (to which both must have agreed on opening) either or both may use all the money that is in it?

Therefore the money should be available for your father's care?

Has your father had a full assessment of his capacity by a fully qualified medical practitioner?

Apparently if one person is deemed to have lost any sort of mental capacity in a joint bank account it can be frozen 

They can do but unlikely where it is a married couple holding the account, and in any case this is not a case of permanent loss of mental capacity and no one is going to inform the bank.

LPAs (especially for finance) need to be put in place ASAP to safeguard against potential future illness. 

elsien

So the issue about getting him at home is not a financial one to start with.
If he does not have capacity to decide for himself where he wants to live and there is no power of attorney or health and welfare deputyship then it is a best interests decision with the local authority as the decision maker. (unless he is fully health funded which seems unlikely from your description.) Or is he in one of those short-term Beds funded by health for 6-8 weeks? 

As part of that process he should have a care act needs assessment to ascertain exactly what Support he needs to get him home. The law says that that assessment comes before the financial assessment so finances do not affect the assessment itself.
So get onto the local authority and tell them that you need a care act needs assessment to get him home. There will be a waiting list, so this needs to be a case of whoever shouts loudest.

If the DoLS has actually been put in place (because again there) can be quite a gap between the care home asking for one and the local author authority coming out to assess his capacity around his care and Support needs)  he should have a Relevant Person’s Representative which may well be you or your mother who can support him to challenge being in care home if that’s what he wants. 

So first stop is the local authority. If he is likely to be a self-funder then they might drag their heels in which case mentioning a possible section 21a challenge for the DoLs would be a good starting point in prodding  them into action. Happy to provide links to explain what this means if you need them. 

Of course as your dad’s health improved he may regain capacity and be able to make his own decisions. 

If there are queries around his understanding I would suggest using a solicitor for any power-of-attorney because it’s more likely to be open to challenge.

Phone up the duty team and take it from there. because someone has to pay for the care home at some point and it is  going be a lot cheaper him to be at home, if nothing else. 

Enzo_L

Mark6701 said:

Hi all,



A few days ago in the care home they put a DOLS on him as he's slightly confused with being in hospital for quite a few weeks (not dementia).

...........

As my mum and dad have a joint bank account it'll likely be frozen due to not having a LPA in place.
 
.....................

Best regards
Mark

It might be stating the obvious but has the care home ensured that your father hasn't got a urinary infection? That is a very common cause of confusion in elderly people, especially when immobile and in care settings.

The joint bank account shouldn't be frozen when a DOLS is made for one of the account holders.

I wouldn't attempt to pursue a Power of Attorney application while your father is subject to a DOLS. You would need to be economical with the truth as to his mental capacity to follow that course.

elsien

Enzo_L said:

Mark6701 said:

Hi all,



A few days ago in the care home they put a DOLS on him as he's slightly confused with being in hospital for quite a few weeks (not dementia).

...........

As my mum and dad have a joint bank account it'll likely be frozen due to not having a LPA in place.
 
.....................

Best regards
Mark

It might be stating the obvious but has the care home ensured that your father hasn't got a urinary infection? That is a very common cause of confusion in elderly people, especially when immobile and in care settings.

The joint bank account shouldn't be frozen when a DOLS is made for one of the account holders.

I wouldn't attempt to pursue a Power of Attorney application while your father is subject to a DOLS. You would need to be economical with the truth as to his mental capacity to follow that course.

Not true. I have worked with a number of people who have a DoLS in place who have still been able to complete a power-of-attorney. The information they need to understand is very different and capacity is time and decision specific. 

however I said it would be wise to use a solicitor in case anyone else raises similar queries.