CityFibre install: Can fibre be routed via existing Openreach duct to avoid surface cabling?

kg87

I’m looking to sanity-check what’s realistically possible with a CityFibre install I have happening in a couple of weeks, as keeping things tidy internally is very important to me.

My house was built in 2018 and was constructed with Openreach fibre fully concealed in the walls/floor. There is no internal surface trunking anywhere. The Openreach fibre enters the property from the front of the house via an underground duct and terminates at an internal network cabinet in a ground-floor cloakroom (roughly central in the house), where the Openreach ONT is installed.

Recently, a CityFibre engineer attended to carry out external pre-install work. While on site, he showed me the external duct they brought the fibre through (which is an Openreach duct so there must be shared PIA here) and mentioned there is a blue pull rope present. He said that if that rope also terminates internally, it might be possible to pull CityFibre’s fibre through the same concealed route, subject to the installer being happy on the day.

I’ve since checked and can see that the blue pull rope does appear to terminate inside the internal Openreach cabinet (photos attached). I fully understand that CityFibre engineers won’t touch Openreach equipment, I wouldn’t expect that. The question is purely about using the existing concealed duct/pathway, not altering OR kit.

What I’m trying to avoid is the alternative scenario where:
CityFibre drills a new entry point, and the ONT fibre is run visibly inside the house (e.g. clipped along skirting boards), which I’m not willing to accept.

So my question to installers / people with experience is: In practice, would CityFibre engineers be willing to route their fibre via an existing concealed developer duct that terminates in an Openreach cabinet without touching Openreach equipment?

Or is this something that is normally refused outright on principle, even if access is straightforward?

I’m just trying to set expectations before install day, as whether this is possible will determine whether I go ahead with the service.

Thanks in advance, appreciate any insight from those who’ve seen this in the real world.

dnpark38

Can't help with your type of property as I'm in a normal house fed with OR full fiber from a pole in the street we have been told that 3 ALT networks, City Fiber, Netonia, and BRSK are to be available at some point in time. Indeed BRSK a few weeks back ran their fiber to the top of the pole via the OR trunking. Some houses have been connected to this ALT. Sad to say BRSK overhead and entry to those houses is not as neat as my OR installation.
It's sort of Rolls Royce vs Ford.
The ALT does not touch OR wire or boxes.  

TadleyBaggie

I'm using Trooli, when they installed their fibre hey used the existing OR ducting.

kg87

TadleyBaggie said:

I'm using Trooli, when they installed their fibre hey used the existing OR ducting.

Thanks, did that include channeling the ONT wires as well so they weren't stapled to your walls or skirting?

daveyjp

Regardless of the existing OR box inside your property, the Cityfibre install will require a new box inside which is close to a power socket.  Example below.

The cable and small white round box is where the fibre enters the property, the power is the black cable.

iniltous

PIA covers external infrastructure, however if that blue rope is inside your property then arguably you can do whatever you like with it , I doubt this rope is inside any ‘internal’ duct or containment of any sort from the under stairs cupboard to the external wall, and it’s very unlikely that it will even move if its attached to a new cable and used as a draw rope as it was in place before the finished wall surfaces were installed and will now be inaccessible and immobile.

I’d be surprised if CF even attempt to do whatever you suggest, the chances of that being successful, to pull an internal cable through various wall spaces  from the external wall to the  location of the Openreach ONT under the stairs using that rope is very slim ( TBH , its very unusual for rope to even be present ) , on modern ‘new build’  installations the developer is paid and installs Openreach internal cabling for them at ‘first fix’ , that’s why it’s behind the finished wall surfaces , they don’t pull the cable in internally with a rope or use ‘internal ducts’ with ropes within them , this OR wiring is done at the same time as the power  sockets and light fixtures , usually by the same electrician.

If you insist on trying this , it’s entirely possible you damage the OR internal cabling , making a return to OR based services at some point in time , if not for you but a future occupant, problematic , and City Fibre after trying and failing , destroying Openreach property in the process , surface wire their cables to the location of their ONT anyway .

As you clearly have something of an issue with the aesthetics, you also need to be aware that CF should not touch or remove the Openreach CSP on the external wall either , bringing their CF cable out of the same Openreach duct but then into another CSP , a CF one as that is their property, presumably somewhere near the existing OR CSP  , unless they take the external cable inside the house and fit an internal CSP .

TBH , you need to accept that the visual element can never be as neat and tidy as the OR one , as OR were there as the building was being constructed, not retro  fitted as with CF.

kg87

daveyjp said:

Regardless of the existing OR box inside your property, the Cityfibre install will require a new box inside which is close to a power socket.  Example below.

The cable and small white round box is where the fibre enters the property, the power is the black cable.

Thanks, yes I am aware of this. My question is around where I can have this. Is your picture of the box above consisting of the brown CF box being on the direct opposite and external side of this wall?

daveyjp

Yes. The box is installed on the front external wall of a property. 

kg87

iniltous said:

PIA covers external infrastructure, however if that blue rope is inside your property then arguably you can do whatever you like with it , I doubt this rope is inside any ‘internal’ duct or containment of any sort from the under stairs cupboard to the external wall, and it’s very unlikely that it will even move if its attached to a new cable and used as a draw rope as it was in place before the finished wall surfaces were installed and will now be inaccessible and immobile.

I’d be surprised if CF even attempt to do whatever you suggest, the chances of that being successful, to pull an internal cable through various wall spaces  from the external wall to the  location of the Openreach ONT under the stairs using that rope is very slim ( TBH , its very unusual for rope to even be present ) , on modern ‘new build’  installations the developer is paid and installs Openreach internal cabling for them at ‘first fix’ , that’s why it’s behind the finished wall surfaces , they don’t pull the cable in internally with a rope or use ‘internal ducts’ with ropes within them , this OR wiring is done at the same time as the power  sockets and light fixtures , usually by the same electrician.

If you insist on trying this , it’s entirely possible you damage the OR internal cabling , making a return to OR based services at some point in time , if not for you but a future occupant, problematic , and City Fibre after trying and failing , destroying Openreach property in the process , surface wire their cables to the location of their ONT anyway .

As you clearly have something of an issue with the aesthetics, you also need to be aware that CF should not touch or remove the Openreach CSP on the external wall either , bringing their CF cable out of the same Openreach duct but then into another CSP , a CF one as that is their property, presumably somewhere near the existing OR CSP  , unless they take the external cable inside the house and fit an internal CSP .

TBH , you need to accept that the visual element can never be as neat and tidy as the OR one , as OR were there as the building was being constructed, not retro  fitted as with CF.

Thanks for your response. I saw you'd provided some useful help on a previous post and I'd actually private messaged you about this just before I found this section of the forum. I really appreciate the detail and need to accept that as clean as I want it to look, it's probably not going to be possible so I need to instead think of a route and method that I'm happy with or just accept that I don't go ahead with it if I can't find one.

QrizB

kg87 said:

I really appreciate the detail and need to accept that as clean as I want it to look, it's probably not going to be possible so I need to instead think of a route and method that I'm happy with or just accept that I don't go ahead with it if I can't find one.

You've shared a picture of one end of a blue draw rope. Do you know where the other end is? Can you confirm it runs in a duct rather than simply being buried in the structure as iniltous suggests?

If you have access to both ends and have a practical bent, you could see if the blue rope will move (do not lose the end of it!) and whether you can draw it through the duct ...

iniltous

You don’t need to have the CF ONT where the Openreach ONT is , unless there is a compelling reason to do so  , like there is a patch panel to extend wired Ethernet sockets around the property, like behind the TV for example, but if there is space and power outlets on the interior side of the wall where the duct appears,  then putting the CF ONT and router here then the amount of visible wiring is minimal but obviously this location may not be suitable for a router