Electric heating

kb1956

QrizB said:

I do hope the survey goes well and that you qualify for the grant.

Storage heaters are currently the least-worst form of electric heating for a property that can't readily get a heat pump.

Hopefully I can if I had gas in the building it wouldn't be a problem. I actually spoke to Cadent and they quoted £2700 to connect to the mains gas then probably another £4000 to install gch but it would probably take more years than I have left on the planet just to recoup that outlay 🤦🏻‍♀️

kb1956

born_again said:

kb1956 said:

Scot_39 said:

kb1956 said:

tlcgrantham said:

kb1956 said:

Robin9 said:

@kb1956     Just checking.

When you were using the storage rads I presume you were on E7.  When you had the panel heaters put in did you change to the SVT ?  If do didn't then the panel heaters are costing even more as the day time rates on E7 are more than SVT

Have you had the Winter Fuel Allowance ?  Reread your post  as you purchased in October you will have missed the cutoff date

I didn't actually use the old storage heaters as they didn't work and yes the panel heaters were on SVT. I'm seriously considering having new storage heaters put in then I can go back on E7 but wondering if they continue to put out heat all day as I'm at home most of the day ??

    As you’re on SVT but may go back to storage heaters an option now could be EDF FreePhase Static Tariff. It has 3 different fixed rates daily instead of 2.

                11:00pm - 6:00am 10pkwh less than SVT

                4:00pm - 7:00pm.   8pkwh. more than SVT

               All other times.        5pkwh less than SVT
 
  All above prices are rounded and depend on your Electricity region.

         1. No Cost and would save money whatever you choose to do.

          2. No Exit Fees and rates fixed for a year

          3. Free Electricity when wholesale price is zero or negative.

          

    

I have just had an electrician round to look at another job and his advice was to go for oil filled radiators. He has been an electrician for a long time and he has never recommended storage and said that oil filled radiators can keep the heat for a lot longer than storage heaters. So I may now go for oil filled radiators 🤔

No.

Really - think what exactly did he say - keep heat as in retain heat in the heater - or keep as in  keep rooms hotter for longer - at increased running costs - by continuinely recharging during tne day at day rates - just like your panel heaters were doing.

And he also may not have any experience of modern lot 20 and hhr programmable room air thermostat regulated night storage heaters.  Thry really as chalk and cheese by comments of those who have upgraded.

Your room needs a fixed amount of kWh of energy per day - to maintain a given temperature profile.  You need a regulated heat source -  time and temp programmable with thermostat - to achieve that - and one that ideally charges at the lowest rates / kWh to control your bills.

Oil filled radiators have more thermal mass than say a convector panel heater - but will cool quickly once remove power.  Even gne most opti istic wall mounted glossies talking maybe 1.5-2hrs , less with some, and as cool will give out progressively less heat. 

I use plug in OFR - but on e10 at my off peak rates - before need my nsh even on min settings - they are not wall mounted and they are certainly not nsh substitutes.  Lucky if my largest 9 fin  c10 kG model even retains heat for 30m-1hr on typical settings once power off.  A large wall mounted can weigh twice that though.

They may be a slightly better match to run across say a cosy off peak gap - like 3hrs 4-7 than other panels. 

But if run on sr they will cost the same as any non ashp style heating.

Wheras a nsh is designed to last 24 hrs from a 7 hrs night charge if properly sized for room losses.   And at a night rate that can be 40-60% of single rate depending on region and supplier.

Did he quote a brand / model for these potentially magical oil filled rads - and a cost ?

He said that the oil filled radiators keep the heat for several hours once they meet the required temperature. This is the model he recommended https://share.google/4QRL03J7l12u6ltcV

How many did they say at that price, in your room?

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/6310914?

A lot cheaper & allows movement near to where you are. OK not as good looking.. But this is MSE 👍

Two large rads in the lounge approx 950mm and one smaller one in the bedroom. I'm now going to see what the surveyor from Cosy Homes says next month (grant through local council for storage heaters) 

Heedtheadvice

Getting Cosy in sounds like a good move.

I would hope they will advise you on insulation, draft proofing, refitting ( LOT20 ) Night storage heaters, ( and programming them for efficient release of heat ) and the best time of use tarrifs to use...and then how best to get grants, any free work and to pay for them.

Electricity is 100% efficient ( hopefully this means becoming heat for you -rather than sound or light production) but the downside to get most benefit  is cost - on two fronts.

1 Running cost: They should advise you how it is best to buy/use electricity when it is cheapest for you and store that heat for use during the day ( but only when required ) so you get best value from it.

Secondly installation cost. Any change ought to be giving you value for money. The basic panel radiator, fan heaters etc can be very cheap to buy and install bit will almost certainly cause high running costs. Storage heating associated with a good time of use tariff  will give lowest running cost but more to install. That is where a capital grant becomes very valuable. The install cost vs running cost is a trade off that will benefit over time. 

Unless you know your life expectancy is going to be short then it is not unreasonable to budget an install cost over the next 10 years or more. I am older than you so appreciate how a capital expenditures/loans/grants can seem hard to justify but as we get older heating becomes more important and over 21deg C is highly desirable. Cosy should help you balance out where you can spend money. Do bear in mind that ventilation and heating ( well controlled) can be essential to prevent debilitating mould growths L20 NSH can help here too.

Often if you have sufficient background heating small point source short term heating can be beneficial (on all cost fronts ) as supplementary local heating such as a local small power radiant fire for the coldest periods, an electric blanket, a microwave cooker and wheat bag ( just a couple of pence to warm up! ) etc.

As a retired engineer I think you may have been getting some poor electricians advice as mentioned in posts on the thread ( unless the meaning was for cheapest installation !) ...but lots of good advice on various posts on this forum.

Hope you get good advice from Cosy and improvements soon ....and do post back (as  I expect you will) as that can help others.

kb1956

Heedtheadvice said:

Getting Cosy in sounds like a good move.

I would hope they will advise you on insulation, draft proofing, refitting ( LOT20 ) Night storage heaters, ( and programming them for efficient release of heat ) and the best time of use tarrifs to use...and then how best to get grants, any free work and to pay for them.

Electricity is 100% efficient ( hopefully this means becoming heat for you -rather than sound or light production) but the downside to get most benefit  is cost - on two fronts.

1 Running cost: They should advise you how it is best to buy/use electricity when it is cheapest for you and store that heat for use during the day ( but only when required ) so you get best value from it.

Secondly installation cost. Any change ought to be giving you value for money. The basic panel radiator, fan heaters etc can be very cheap to buy and install bit will almost certainly cause high running costs. Storage heating associated with a good time of use tariff  will give lowest running cost but more to install. That is where a capital grant becomes very valuable. The install cost vs running cost is a trade off that will benefit over time. 

Unless you know your life expectancy is going to be short then it is not unreasonable to budget an install cost over the next 10 years or more. I am older than you so appreciate how a capital expenditures/loans/grants can seem hard to justify but as we get older heating becomes more important and over 21deg C is highly desirable. Cosy should help you balance out where you can spend money. Do bear in mind that ventilation and heating ( well controlled) can be essential to prevent debilitating mould growths L20 NSH can help here too.

Often if you have sufficient background heating small point source short term heating can be beneficial (on all cost fronts ) as supplementary local heating such as a local small power radiant fire for the coldest periods, an electric blanket, a microwave cooker and wheat bag ( just a couple of pence to warm up! ) etc.

As a retired engineer I think you may have been getting some poor electricians advice as mentioned in posts on the thread ( unless the meaning was for cheapest installation !) ...but lots of good advice on various posts on this forum.

Hope you get good advice from Cosy and improvements soon ....and do post back (as  I expect you will) as that can help others.

Hi thanks very much for your comments. Xan I just ask what L20 storage heaters are ?

Scot_39

Lot 20 is a modern standard - set by eu c2018 - for heater efficiency - and imposes standards for controls etc on modern heaters for efficient operation.

NSH also come in different degrees of insulation.

So for rhe Dimplex family - the Quantum one user posted above is an HHR - which stands for high heat retention - which have higher levels of insulation - the best option especially if out a lot during the day.
The level below that will all now be lot 20 if new - includes models like Dimplex XLE or now its sister company Creda tsre range.

Which as above might be an acceptable cost trade off - especially for those likely to be in all day most days.

The best lot 20 share many of the high end programmable thermostic control and other features to prevent waste.

Other brands are available - Elnur hhrs have many users here too, Stiebel etc.

wrf12345

There was another thread on storage heaters where the new heaters were automatically going into boost mode and using expensive daytime electric to maintain the temperature so if you do get a grant make sure that is turned off when it is set up by the installers, or you will be back where you started.

kb1956

wrf12345 said:

There was another thread on storage heaters where the new heaters were automatically going into boost mode and using expensive daytime electric to maintain the temperature so if you do get a grant make sure that is turned off when it is set up by the installers, or you will be back where you started.

Thanks very much I will make sure of this 🙂

kb1956

Scot_39 said:

Lot 20 is a modern standard - set by eu c2018 - for heater efficiency - and imposes standards for controls etc on modern heaters for efficient operation.

NSH also come in different degrees of insulation.

So for rhe Dimplex family - the Quantum one user posted above is an HHR - which stands for high heat retention - which have higher levels of insulation - the best option especially if out a lot during the day.
The level below that will all now be lot 20 if new - includes models like Dimplex XLE or now its sister company Creda tsre range.

Which as above might be an acceptable cost trade off - especially for those likely to be in all day most days.

The best lot 20 share many of the high end programmable thermostic control and other features to prevent waste.

Other brands are available - Elnur hhrs have many users here too, Stiebel etc.

Thank you for the explanation. Cosy Homes Lancashire offer the Elnur hhrs on their grant so hopefully if the surveyor says I'm eligible for them they will be my best bet. I will have to look through the posts on here to see Elnur reviews. Thanks very much once again 🙂

Qyburn

kb1956 said:..
He has been an electrician for a long time and he has never recommended storage and said that oil filled radiators can keep the heat for a lot longer than storage heaters. 

That is so wrong it warrants disbelieving anything else he claimed.

kb1956

Qyburn said:

kb1956 said:..
He has been an electrician for a long time and he has never recommended storage and said that oil filled radiators can keep the heat for a lot longer than storage heaters. 

That is so wrong it warrants disbelieving anything else he claimed.

Yep I have already sacked him and will not be going ahead with any of his recommendations. Thank God for this site 🙂