Another Deprivation Of Assets question!

Altior

itsthelittlethings said:

So you're going to pay off all your debt and try to stash some money in a pension and apply for UC?

I can do it with short term debt and mortgage OP. I was hoping to avoid mortgage as my interest rate is quite low, but it's bomb proof with regard to not possibly being DoC. Important to note, I won't get any material UC as I already qualify for CB ESA. It won't come into play for at least another year, as my capital will be too high to get anything meaningful. If I am in the support group then that would apply under ESA or UC. 

itsthelittlethings

Altior said:

itsthelittlethings said:

So you're going to pay off all your debt and try to stash some money in a pension and apply for UC?

I can do it with short term debt and mortgage OP. I was hoping to avoid mortgage as my interest rate is quite low, but it's bomb proof with regard to not possibly being DoC. Important to note, I won't get any material UC as I already qualify for CB ESA. It won't come into play for at least another year, as my capital will be too high to get anything meaningful. If I am in the support group then that would apply under ESA or UC. 

I feel like you're putting too much thought into this but if it works for you, all the best with it!

huckster

The reason a fairly high percentage of New Style ESA claimants are placed in support group, is that a large number have terminal conditions such as cancer or they have multiple serious health conditions. They are claiming NS ESA, as they often have partners or capital, where a UC claim would not be possible or provide any benefit.

Quite a lot of ESA claims are for a short period only, so they never go through WCA. WCA's are currently taking about 4 months to be held, so those temporarily off work due to less serious health issues or injuries go back to work and close ESA before any WCA.

Altior

itsthelittlethings said:

Altior said:

itsthelittlethings said:

So you're going to pay off all your debt and try to stash some money in a pension and apply for UC?

I can do it with short term debt and mortgage OP. I was hoping to avoid mortgage as my interest rate is quite low, but it's bomb proof with regard to not possibly being DoC. Important to note, I won't get any material UC as I already qualify for CB ESA. It won't come into play for at least another year, as my capital will be too high to get anything meaningful. If I am in the support group then that would apply under ESA or UC. 

I feel like you're putting too much thought into this but if it works for you, all the best with it!

It is something that has been levelled at me in the past, on more than one occasion 

In some respects it pretty is straight forward, but I regularly find out stuff I didn't know. I am balancing risk. A couple of weeks ago I didn't know that FtW was a possible outcome of the WCA (how would I?), and I didn't know about PPA until last night.

PPA provides a backstop, so it now feels safer to go for UC. I have a number to call in office hours tomorrow for HMCTS where I can get the minimum expected waiting time for an 'other benefit type' appeal (automated IVR). Just over a year ago it was 9 months. 

poppy12345

If the worst happens and you’re found fit to work or placed into the WRAG you still need to go through the MR process before you can appeal to Tribunal. 

Altior

huckster said:

The reason a fairly high percentage of New Style ESA claimants are placed in support group, is that a large number have terminal conditions such as cancer or they have multiple serious health conditions. They are claiming NS ESA, as they often have partners or capital, where a UC claim would not be possible or provide any benefit.

Quite a lot of ESA claims are for a short period only, so they never go through WCA. WCA's are currently taking about 4 months to be held, so those temporarily off work due to less serious health issues or injuries go back to work and close ESA before any WCA.

It's all in the stats, I mean this is bordering on enjoyable for a geek like me. Section 8 covers Main reasons for ESA Support Group decisions for initial assessments by claim start date. There are several factors, including of course the transition to UC. But by far the biggest bucket remains 'Severe Functional Disability'. People can be placed in multiple categories.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/esa-outcomes-of-work-capability-assessments-including-mandatory-reconsiderations-and-appeals-june-2025/esa-work-capability-assessments-mandatory-reconsiderations-and-appeals-june-2025#health-conditions-and-esa-group-allocation-for-initial-wcas

An example of the raw data is here

Altior

poppy12345 said:

If the worst happens and you’re found fit to work or placed into the WRAG you still need to go through the MR process before you can appeal to Tribunal. 

I can't find any evidence of that if it's the first WCA, therefore eligible for PPA:

poppy12345

PPA would not apply after 1 year because NsESA is limited to this amount of time unless placed into the Support Group. After that 1 year you will receive no further payments. 

Grumpy_chap

This thread has really evolved as it has progressed.

There were two, focused questions initially for which the DoC answers were quite straightforward.  The limits on pension contribution restricted by earned income was also covered:

Altior said:

Can I:

a) contribute to a private pension out of my ESA (unearned income) and cash interest income. 

and, or;

b) contribute to a private pension out of my existing savings, without it being treated as DOC ahead of a UC application. 

A note would be that I do have earned income from the beginning of the tax year, so would be eligible for private pension contributions where the tax can be reclaimed.

The thread now appears to be broadening the scope to essentially asking "what can I do to reduce my capital so that I get UC and it is not DoC?"

Well, by definition, "Deprivation of capital is when you knowingly reduce or transfer elsewhere your savings or other capital to get, or increase your award of Universal Credit. This may be before making a claim or during an existing claim."
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/deprivation-of-savings-and-other-capital-universal-credit

Essentially, given the clearly stated objective apparent from the thread, anything the OP does to reduce capital will be DoC.

Altior

poppy12345 said:

PPA would not apply after 1 year because NsESA is limited to this amount of time unless placed into the Support Group. After that 1 year you will receive no further payments. 

The thing is I can read anywhere official where that is the case. This is quite explicit.

1. Individuals can be found not to have Limited Capability for Work (LCW) – thereby they are ‘Fit for Work’ (FfW)

Their ESA claim closes and, depending on their circumstances, they can make a claim for New Style Jobseeker’s Allowance (NSJSA) and/or UC. At the same time they can dispute their ESA decision. Where the WCA is the individual’s first such assessment they can appeal to HM Courts & Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and continue to be paid ESA pending the appeal being heard.

All other claimants have to go through the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) process before they can appeal. ESA is not paid during the MR process. If these individuals do appeal they will not be paid ESA pending their appeal being heard. These individuals can claim NSJSA whilst their MR and appeal are being considered. In both instances if the appeal is successful any arrears due will be paid back to the date of the hearing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa-outcomes-of-work-capability-assessment-policies-and-statements/employment-and-support-allowance-outcomes-of-work-capability-assessments-great-britain-background-information#work-capability-assessment-changes 

Under 1.2.

As far as I am aware, you can only apply for contributions based ESA, so by default, everyone having their first assessment is now limited to 365 days of ESA. But it clearly states that ESA will continue to be paid pending the appeal. 

To be clear, I'm not stating that you're incorrect, but what you're saying is out of line with the formal DWP information.