E7 active period differs from billing period

Swipe

Scot_39 said:

Swipe said:

While there can be an offset delay to prevent all meters going onto off peak at the same time, your tariff price schedule should still match the time that your smart meter switches to off peak via ALCS (assuming you have a five port meter and not a 4 port wth an external contactor that does your switching). I'd raise this as a complaint and insist that they correct things so that the switching and tariff times match each other. If they still refuse, ask for a deadlock letter and tell them you'll go to the ombudsman who will side with you and also inform them that you'll be requesting bill recalculations for the off peak usage at peak rate price. Hopefully, you just spoke to someone at Octopus who doesn't properly understand how smart meters are meant to work on E7 and they are getting confused with how time of use tariffs which are billed via 30min buckets, can result in some overcharge compared to E7 ALCS switching. Please post a photo of your meter if you are unsure which type of setup you have.

It should afaik make no difference whether you have a 5 port or 4 port with meter 2A relay controlled external contactor.

Why do you think its different ?

The behaviour is the same when meters configured properly.   

Because the 5 port should automatically match the tariff schedule with the ALCS calendar when the tariff details are pushed out. I assumed with the external contactor the tariff schedule times would require some kind of manual match up if not currently correct, but maybe that is also auto detected somehow?

Scot_39

Not in the case of meter controlled external contactors - they both use tge same tables in the meter afaik. 

The timing remains in the meter. The contactor thr slave, no timing on board.

 (That's not true of some of tge secondary controllers some suppliers used to fit pre smart or later generation digital  - early digital like ampy and early l+g like 5235d were hard wired slaves to external timers to switch registers).

And the iirc so called  "Alcs calander" table is a different data set from the tariffs in all smart meters.

[There are even 5 port twin element meters with 2 sets of tariff tables, primary and secondary and 7 port meters with multiples of both in theory.]

And users have been sent 1 without the other, and in one "recent" case for an at the time EDF customer that was definitely  on a standard single element 5 port meter.
The tariff tables updated Apr 1st with new cap pricing,  the ALCS remained as was set on installation iirc that part of Rosie1001s problems.

So seems there is nothing 100% guaranteed about keeping them properly matched - we see rare but regular enough  posters here who ended up with them mismatched.  

Swipe

Scot_39 said:

Not in the case of meter controlled external contactors - they both use tge same tables in the meter afaik. 

And the iirc so called  "Alcs calander" table is a different data set from the tariffs in all smart meters.

[There are even 5 port twin element meters with 2 sets of tariff tables, primary and secondary and 7 port meters with multiples of both in theory.]

And users have been sent 1 without the other, and in one "recent" case for an at the time EDF customer that was definitely  on a standard single element 5 port meter.
The tariff tables updated Apr 1st with new cap pricing,  the ALCS remained as was set on installation iirc that part of Rosie1001s problems.

So seems there is nothing 100% guaranteed about keeping them properly matched - we see rare but regular enough  posters here who ended up with them mismatched.  

When I was with E.On Next, I once saw my tariff schedule drift by about 10 mins. I raised this with them and they just palmed me off but, over subsequent days, it gradually re-aligned itself to the ALCS timings by around 1 min per day. Very strange indeed. I also had an incident earlier this month with UW where my ALCS activated at the normal time but the tariff rate didn't change to off peak until about 3 hours into the E7 window. I raised this with UW and the next day it was rectified and they credited me with a good will payment to cover the cost of the 20 units erroneously charged at peak rate. I now watch it like a hawk and check my readings daily in case of any other anomolies. I find it crazy that I now have to go to these lengths. Life was so much simplier before smart meters.

Scot_39

Thanks - seems strange - very strange.

I often check my ihd - but not religiously 3x a day - as my e10 switches rates and alcs.

Theres only one clock afaik and two sets of look up tables tables driven from it.  And the dither offset preset is traditionally fixed and common to both.

All are digital.

The EOn scenario therefore seems odd enough.

I assume UW might have resent the tariff tables OTA to meter to fix  - but then did that mean they had sent erroneous ones say day before ?

I can understand now why you would be warry - tech is great when you can trust it - a pain when you cannot. 

And in terms of my meter - little access to anything but the readings  - not the settings controlling them.  i can see tge live rate and cycle through the registers to check when live after use 1 kWh anyway.  EOns portal and even app doesn't give 1/2hrly for me either -I reinstalled it recently only because new info in email shot said it did.

Swipe

Scot_39 said:

I assume UW might have resent the tariff tables OTA to meter - but then did that mean they had sent erroneous ones say day before ?

That is a logical explanation and what I also assume had happened. I think it probably received the refreshed tariff info when it began charging at the correct rate at around 3:30am.

gorspenyans

Thank You everybody for your help on this. I will check the registers tonight and post my findings in the morning .

If it helps I downloaded the usage spreadsheets from Octopus, they also show that, day after day, for the first 30 minutes of every day that their charges are significantly higher that the next few 30 minutes periods.  

QrizB

gorspenyans said:
If it helps I downloaded the usage spreadsheets from Octopus, they also show that, day after day, for the first 30 minutes of every day that their charges are significantly higher that the next few 30 minutes periods. 

Note the word "estimated" at the top of the cost column.

Those tables are no more relevant than the charts. What's important for a normal E7 tariff is which register is active when your ALCS-switched circuits are live, not the half-hourly metering.

Rosie1001

My meter switches over at 9 mins past the hour or half hour to switch off 

eg .. 12.09 pm switch on  , 6.39 am  off 

3.09 pm / then 4.09 pm off 

dealyboy

I check my E7 register activation timing every day like @Swipe but I only check the morning one ... a couple of minutes before and after 7am (night rate 00:00-07:00 Eastern region) but then again I'm an early bird. Back in November 2024 I discovered that E.ON Next had erroneously changed my tariff hours to 00:30-07:30. I don't have an ALCS circuit I use local timers.

gorspenyans

I just took a look at my meter, bit of a dry run for tonight. The meter is an Itron EM425-UK25T (Two blue buttons with an orange button between them)

I found an entry in the Command Menu for ALCS, on pressing select it said none found? is that right? With no manual to guide me everything is guess work.

I did find a display giving "Active Tariff Price" this was displaying my Peak tariff at around 1pm (as expected) Is this what I am looking for? 

I can also see a segment in the display with 3 bars in a configuration I think is showing open circuit  _/_ . the bars have AUX above them. If my guess is right the bars should change to closed _-_ when the off peak is active. Am I right in expecting the tariff price at that time changing to match my off peak.

I have a voltage sensing pen that I can leave against the off peak feed, this, hopefully, will tell me when that circuit is active, I should then be able to verify the rates etc.

Sorry for the questions, all this is out of my knowledge base and I want to be sure of my facts when I next tackle Octopus.