Cheapest tariffs now non renewable electric

barker77

Noticed that on comparisons most of companies now selling non renewable electricity.

this seems a recent change and includes eon and British Gas. A real shame  

sheenas

Mmm, not sure how you would filter out renewable from non renewable electricity from the mains? The national grid supply on a good day around 50% renewables, so the any tariff supplies that. They don’t get a choice or influence were electricity comes from either thats national grid/neso. So any package has the same green credentials as far as I can see. 

barker77

sheenas said:

Mmm, not sure how you would filter out renewable from non renewable electricity from the mains? The national grid supply on a good day around 50% renewables, so the any tariff supplies that. They don’t get a choice or influence were electricity comes from either thats national grid/neso. So any package has the same green credentials as far as I can see. 

This is often discussed. Of course thats true, this is more around adding green energy to the grid 

QrizB

barker77 said:

Noticed that on comparisons most of companies now selling non renewable electricity.
this seems a recent change and includes eon and British Gas. A real shame  

I'm wondering if Ofgem have finally changed the rules around REGOs and green washing.

Here's some discussion from a couple of years ago:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6381256/eon-next-100-renewable-energy

And an article on some energy suppliers stopping use of REGOs for this purpose:

https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/energy-suppliers-wise-abandon-rego-certificates-greenwashing-concerns

Quote from the article:

OVO said that many customers mistakenly believe that the REGO certificates mean their property is directly served with 100% renewable electricity. In reality, however, on days of low wind and solar energy generation, much of the electricity supplied on green energy tariffs still comes from fossil fuel production.

This sounds a bit like the OP's concern.

Scot_39

Genuine green tariffs were always at a premium price when introduced many many years ago.  They were also excluded from the Ofgem cap rates to allow investment in generation. 

The difference is we are now all forced without a proper democratic mandate - a choice of opposing views and strategies from the parties seeking to lead us. - to pay the now very clearly emerging premium price.

EOn Next stopped guaranteeing 100% green electric - well via REGOs -  to domestic variable rate tariffs initially a good while back, but still fixes.  But noepw maybe only do the one - next gust - fix.

The real question is why we all cannot have a true choice in our generation mix..

100% green - no regos - genuine matched capacity and storage mix.

Mix with regos

100% fossil - and of course with it the removal of all the additional costs from  bills - to rrmove all renewables hidden subsidies like tge RO, like CfDs, like billions per annum in balancing and curtailment, like £10s bn in  network upgrades - and so with far far cheaper electricity.

When these costs were only on a trivial part of generation mix, and even now significant, but are for c85% homes only apllied to a tiny fraction of domestic energy demand - like the 20% electric in the 2700 vs 11500 duel fuel cap - they might be acceptable.

When they are on that increased share of 100% of your energy needs - and helping add £100s to your bills - they are for many not.

The latest temporary £92 budget cut for RO  - is only 75% of one component of that cost - the so called renewables obligation - the full price £123.  Add just RO and CfDs £27 - to make it a nice round £150 ex vat - not quite matched by the heralded budget £150 saving.

And yes we will still be paying £31 come Apr in bills - and the £92 temporarily hidden in tax and no doubt even more new debt.

Scale that £150 to profile class 2 home energy type consumption - median cap 3900 kWh - £217 ex vat.

£217 ex vat in current £1179 pc2 cap - nearly 20%.

An all electric  cap that will come Jan 1st be increased a further £51 - so £85 in total in just 3 months - without falling gas prices to hide even more govt charges. Not so much heralding in a Happy New Year - but an even more miserable one - for many already struggling.

barker77

Poorest households sure. Realistically though penny pinching now on keep burning fossil fuels is going to cost way more 

Scot_39

The green house emissions output of tge UKs 67 million pales into insignificance, compared to that from the existing 8.2bn globally - and of course the unspoken elephant in the room - the extra 1.8bn expected to be alive by the 2050 accord target.

10bn being one of UNs and others median projections for 2050.. 

But we are are penalising our own tiny population particularly the poorest and our industries and businesses with some of the most expensive electricity in the western world.

If the same level of costs were applied to gas as electric - perhaps 100% shifted from electric to gas - as a stick rather than thr carrot of massively cheaper rates per kWh - given thats the fuel they want us to stop using - I suspect far more would be angry about these costs in UK.

Where the consensus on global warming and client science remains - but support for policy to achieve it at any cost - does not.  And risks derailing net zero completely long before 2050 judging by polls.

barker77

As the age old saying - every little helps. 

Scot_39

The UK doesnt need more unreliable wind - it needs storage to smooth it's delivery.  And reliable generation to guarantee keeping the lights on and businesses operating - over and above that smoother deliverable average.

And thinking globally

I suspect you would get far better control of emissions globally by investing a fraction of the money going into our energy bills - going into renewables firms and TNO's for grid upgrades and their suppliers profits in the UK and other rich nations no doubt - elsewhere.

By say ensuring - new population doesnt equate to new emissions for power needs.

With say half that forecast global growth (0.9bn by 2054) the UN predicts will be in sub saharan Africa - were (as its estimated to be accompanied by far greater urbanisation - not more traditional rural subsistance liefstyles) - they are incentivised to ensure popn adequately served by their own wind, solar and storage.

And not as other investment plans - European investment - including the UK at one stage with 2 not sure how serious HVDC proposals to Morocco even (EU already have some in use / being built - Spain to Morroco) - but with goal of acquiring 10s GW of solar and wind generated power from N Africa over HVDC links etc for their own use.

barker77

It’s possible to have reliable renewables and low carbon too like nuclear. It’s a shame MSE flag green energy but don’t flag non clean too 

Newbie_John

Nuclear comes with its own problems. The whole point is that green energy needs non-green energy, even if we covered the whole country with solar and wind turbines - windless cloudy days in winter require additional support.

If you want a cheap green tarriff - try Agile and try shifting as much as possible.

And all the green labels based on certificates make no sense, what matters is that amount of green energy is going up about 3% by average per year with 42% recently - up from 15% 10 years ago.