Cheapest tariffs now non renewable electric

Scot_39

What matters is that green energy increasing as it is in the generation mix - is dragging up the price of electricity - as that percentage increases - not dropping it - despite years - if not quite decades - of the promise of cheap green energy

Making it unaffordable for many - domestic and business users alike.

A recent poll - for Telegraph - not the biggest backers of net zero admittedly at times - suggested that although 60% supported net zero in principle - 68% thought it was more important to keep energy bills down vs 21% who thought net zero was the right priority.

barker77

Sadly people wanting jam today vs realising benefits in future 

Scot_39

Or people with a different perspective and so different sence of balance on the issue.
Or simply too poor to afford the cost of your no doubt genuinely held beliefs.
Like the 9m households in UK by one metric living in energy poverty.  Thats over 30% of homes by the way. 
Even the tighter definition is over 6m - and so over 20% of homes.

As govt social and net zero policy adds £100s to bills.
With Ofgem making it clear - twice since budget --net zero to add greater costs for years to come.

If you want to pay a premium for green energy feel free.
If you want to pay more tax for it - feel free.

But dont expect others to.

68% dont want to according to that Nov 25 poll. 
And that's a large majority if applied nationally - a potential democratic mandate for a real change of direction.

Qyburn

barker77 said:

sheenas said:

Mmm, not sure how you would filter out renewable from non renewable electricity from the mains? The national grid supply on a good day around 50% renewables, so the any tariff supplies that. They don’t get a choice or influence were electricity comes from either thats national grid/neso. So any package has the same green credentials as far as I can see. 

This is often discussed. Of course thats true, this is more around adding green energy to the grid 

I don't think so called "green" or renewable tariffs even do that. They may buy only renewable, but that doesn't in itself change the total renewable/non-renewable mix on the grid.

For example Enstroga did not claim 100% renewable, but when their customers were transferred to Octopus that didn't result in an increase in renewable energy in the mix.

silverwhistle

Scot_39 said:

What matters is that green energy increasing as it is in the generation mix - is dragging up the price of electricity - as that percentage increases - not dropping it - despite years - if not quite decades - of the promise of cheap green energy

No, the decades would apply to nuclear, which even in 1976 when I joined the electricity supply industry was holding out the prospect of really cheap electricity, although by then they had rolled back on the "too cheap to meter" rhetoric. Now our new plant will be getting higher guaranteed prices for longer than wind and solar, and will still need back up for their regular downtime for refuelling and, if the existing fleet is anything to go by, regular unplanned outages. Mind you on that point, the current plant is getting on a bit.

I'm on Agile, and even in the most expensive month of last January during the dunkelflaute my average price was 21p, which is under SVR. Most of the year it was in the low teens and even single figures, but I won't bore you all with my spreadsheet figures. The higher prices coincided with burning expensive gas.

Funnily enough the price of LNG has been going down, to some extent below the production cost of expensive US fracked gas; there'll be a few stranded assets there I suspect. Cheaper producers are coming onstream elsewhere. But the interesting thing is that part of the reducing prices is lowering demand, as in so many parts of the world it is cheaper to go renewable.

bristolleedsfan

silverwhistle said:

Scot_39 said:

What matters is that green energy increasing as it is in the generation mix - is dragging up the price of electricity - as that percentage increases - not dropping it - despite years - if not quite decades - of the promise of cheap green energy

.

I'm on Agile, and even in the most expensive month of last January during the dunkelflaute my average price was 21p, which is under SVR. Most of the year it was in the low teens and even single figures, but I won't bore you all with my spreadsheet figures. The higher prices coincided with burning expensive gas.

Agile price comparison with SVR has everything to do with formula not having been changed since Agile was launched during 2018 whereas various non wholesale energy costs have been added to SVR over the years.

barker77

I absoloutely agree that those unable too should prioritise ensuring health or cheaper heating etc. For everyone else I think MSE and other sites should show that tariffs aren’t renewable just as they show that others are. For those interested there is a cool fuel mix page for most suppliers here 

https://matched.energy/

Scot_39

Agile in part only exists due to the UK's flawed renewables model - arguably deliberately skewed to wholesale pricing - as a deliberate act of greenwashing - to keep the pretence of cheap green energy alive.

End curtailment payments to all renewables - and the financial incentive for it - disappears.

End curtailment payments to all renewables - and the financial incentive for investing £10s bn in the network - including the new HVDC links - disappears overnight.

Let the farm operators pay out of their profits - for new connections / new capacity - if renewables is truly a viable competitive generation source.

What you say - "but it would make it too expensive - and risk ending the renewables roll out - and our net zero commitments" - great.

That's a policy I'd vote for in a heartbeat.

All those £billions per annum wiped off the majority of homes and businesses electricity bills.  Not just the few with the knowledge and flexibility to benefit - subsidised in reality by the rest who pay in full for the overcapacity on every kWh.

And those who want to pay more for green energy can pay the solar and wind farm operators an appropriate rate for green energy and the extra network to deliver it if they want it.  Just as they could from the very beginning.  

Based on the above poll - thats just around 1 in 5 - and if the other 4 in 5 ever get to stop paying - and the 1 in 5 face the full costs - I suspect even that will drop.

barker77

@Scot_39 wow. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgjzpglw4yo

Hopefully the government will take a more data driven view and not prioritise cash savings like you suggest. Ensuring the poorest have heating is vital, but ensuing those that can afford to stop the world over heating is a priority too. 

Scot_39

And yet another meaningless indirect link for the green lobby - a global impact - localised down to justify UK policy and punitive expense.

And its not even proven yet - with over a week to go.

The UK is less than 1% of the earths population - the expected 1.8 bn growth by 2050 - is over 25x the UK's total population.

And those caught just above what ever threshold the govt may or may not to decide to intervene in - like the old 3.4m and now 6.1m who get £150 WHD (except they dont because the cost of the WHD including the extra £26 in the last 2 caps alone - is in fact built into their top line too).

I dont pay when you select a more expensive brand at the supermarket or a more expensive supermarket - and given a choice - I won't pay for your expensive brand of electricity.

I dont want to pay for your choices - they are your choices.