Confirmation

taexali

Our mum died recently, my sister and I are the only beneficiaries and are both executers.  My mum moved in with my sister recently due to ill health and died shortly after.  My sister became joint account holder on my mum's current and savings accounts when she moved in.  I was happy with this as there are no trust issues. 

We have received a cheque for a small insurance policy < £2000 and the funeral has been paid for.

Tell us once has been used and we have informed her pension & services providers.  We are looking for a bit of guidance for applying for Confirmation.

House value is < £200k.  No mortgage.

In total her assets will be somewhere well below the IHT threshold.

We have downloaded the C1 form and are looking at completing it.

We believe that the bank accounts still need to be declared on the C1 form. <£50k

We intend to get an estate agent to value the house in preparation for selling after we get Confirmation.

How detailed do we need to be with her assets?  Not much value there, just the usual household stuff - TVs, furniture, clothes etc.  Can we just put say, furniture value £3000 or do we need to list each item?

I will phone the Sheriff Court on Monday but I assume I need an appointment to deliver the documents?

The documents I think we will need will be:
Will
C1 form
Driving licence x2
Passport x2

Have I missed anything?  Any advice for getting it right?

Keep_pedalling

Yes, the joint accounts will need to declared, although if you aunt is handing all of it back to you and your sibling it is going to complicate her estate as is may be seen as a gift from her.

You don’t need to value the individual items if they are all of a modest value just use a nominal sum for the lot.

poppystar

Keep_pedalling said:

Yes, the joint accounts will need to declared, although if you aunt is handing all of it back to you and your sibling it is going to complicate her estate as is may be seen as a gift from her.

You don’t need to value the individual items if they are all of a modest value just use a nominal sum for the lot.

Not sure there is an aunt? Mother moved in with OPs sister from my reading of it.

Keep_pedalling

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Yes, the joint accounts will need to declared, although if you aunt is handing all of it back to you and your sibling it is going to complicate her estate as is may be seen as a gift from her.

You don’t need to value the individual items if they are all of a modest value just use a nominal sum for the lot.

Not sure there is an aunt? Mother moved in with OPs sister from my reading of it.

Whoops! I miss read that as the mother’s sister. 

buddy9

taexali said:

Our mum died recently, my sister and I are the only beneficiaries and are both executers.  My mum moved in with my sister recently due to ill health and died shortly after.  My sister became joint account holder on my mum's current and savings accounts when she moved in.  I was happy with this as there are no trust issues. 

We have received a cheque for a small insurance policy < £2000 and the funeral has been paid for.

Tell us once has been used and we have informed her pension & services providers.  We are looking for a bit of guidance for applying for Confirmation.

House value is < £200k.  No mortgage.

In total her assets will be somewhere well below the IHT threshold.

We have downloaded the C1 form and are looking at completing it.

We believe that the bank accounts still need to be declared on the C1 form. <£50k

We intend to get an estate agent to value the house in preparation for selling after we get Confirmation.

How detailed do we need to be with her assets?  Not much value there, just the usual household stuff - TVs, furniture, clothes etc.  Can we just put say, furniture value £3000 or do we need to list each item?

I will phone the Sheriff Court on Monday but I assume I need an appointment to deliver the documents?

The documents I think we will need will be:
Will
C1 form
Driving licence x2
Passport x2

Have I missed anything?  Any advice for getting it right?

I presume that you need Confirmation for house conveyancing. Are you certain that the land register shows mum as the sole owner?

If your sister’s name was added to mum’s bank accounts to allow your sister to operate the accounts, this allows your sister to continue to operate the accounts after mum’s death, but does not mean that ownership passes to your sister. The account values (including interest if appropriate) at date of death are part of your mum’s estate and should be listed in the inventory.

The wording of the inventory and the wording of para 2 of the declaration are important. The HMRC guidance (form C3) falls short in this respect. You will find guidance and examples on these threads, (and others)

Grant of Confirmation  (but beware of inaccuracy in some of the earlier (10 year old) posts).

C1 Scotland Inventory

The SCTS website details the id requirements for the declarant executor. 

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/dealing-with-a-deceaseds-estate-in-scotland/large-estates/

taexali

buddy9 said:

taexali said:

Our mum died recently, my sister and I are the only beneficiaries and are both executers.  My mum moved in with my sister recently due to ill health and died shortly after.  My sister became joint account holder on my mum's current and savings accounts when she moved in.  I was happy with this as there are no trust issues. 

We have received a cheque for a small insurance policy < £2000 and the funeral has been paid for.

Tell us once has been used and we have informed her pension & services providers.  We are looking for a bit of guidance for applying for Confirmation.

House value is < £200k.  No mortgage.

In total her assets will be somewhere well below the IHT threshold.

We have downloaded the C1 form and are looking at completing it.

We believe that the bank accounts still need to be declared on the C1 form. <£50k

We intend to get an estate agent to value the house in preparation for selling after we get Confirmation.

How detailed do we need to be with her assets?  Not much value there, just the usual household stuff - TVs, furniture, clothes etc.  Can we just put say, furniture value £3000 or do we need to list each item?

I will phone the Sheriff Court on Monday but I assume I need an appointment to deliver the documents?

The documents I think we will need will be:
Will
C1 form
Driving licence x2
Passport x2

Have I missed anything?  Any advice for getting it right?

I presume that you need Confirmation for house conveyancing. Are you certain that the land register shows mum as the sole owner?

If your sister’s name was added to mum’s bank accounts to allow your sister to operate the accounts, this allows your sister to continue to operate the accounts after mum’s death, but does not mean that ownership passes to your sister. The account values (including interest if appropriate) at date of death are part of your mum’s estate and should be listed in the inventory.

The wording of the inventory and the wording of para 2 of the declaration are important. The HMRC guidance (form C3) falls short in this respect. You will find guidance and examples on these threads, (and others)

Thanks for this information.  We've found the deeds and my dad's name is still on them even though he died 22 tears ago.  What can we do?

buddy9

Do you mean that the house title shows ‘mum and dad’ or only dad?

If the house was co-owned, are there words of survivorship in the title? (eg: equally and to the survivor) - if so, ownership will have passed automatically to mum on dad’s death and the house can be included in mum’s inventory. With a special destination (survivorship clause) house ownership passes automatically to the survivor. 

If co-owned and there is no mention of survivorship in the title, then there is no special destination and the house is owned in pro indivisio shares, which share will devolve in line with each co-owners will. Without a special destination, the executor of the first to die requires to include the house share in their Confirmation. 

Is the house registered in the land register or the general register of sasines? 

To an extent, paper deeds have lost their functionality, you might wish to check the current title status on https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/search

taexali

Thanks buddy9, we've got the title and there is no mention of "equally and to the survivor".  Looks like mum should have obtained Confirmation for dad but she obviously was unaware and assumed the house just transferred to her.

How do we get Confirmation after 22 years?

buddy9

I take it then that the house is in joint names. If the house is registered in the Land Register of Scotland, then survivorship (if any) would appear in the proprietorship section.

Are you certain that confirmation was not issued in respect of your Dad’s estate? One option is that confirmation was issued but the house title was not updated.

If no confirmation, did Dad leave a will? If so:

• Do you have or can you obtain his original will?

• Who is nominated executor(s)?

• Does the will nominate any substitute executors?

• Are any of the executors alive and still with capacity?

• Who, in terms of relationships, are gifted legacies in his will? Are any of them still alive and with capacity?

taexali

I have spoken to my sister and she thinks the same as me.  Dad did not have a will and when he died we just assumed that everything went to mum.  She would have assumed this and it hasn't been a problem until now.  Mum got a will done after dad died and left everything equally to my sister and me.  

Therefore, when dad died there was no executor, so no one to speak to now.

buddy9

On the basis of the information that you give, then a solution might be a double confirmation. This assumes that Mum and Dad were married.

Firstly, as executors-nominate, you and sister apply for Confirmation to mum’s estate in the normal way. In the inventory is included mum’s half share of the house and her interest, by intestate succession, to her late husband’s estate.

Once this Confirmation has been issued, you and sister apply for appointment as ‘executors-dative qua representatives of the relict of [Dad’s name]’.

Once decerned executors-dative, an application for Confirmation is made in respect of Dad’s estate (using older forms).

Because the second confirmation application is a dative appointment, then the rule that might be applied is generally that a ‘bond of caution’ (pronounced ‘kayshun’) is needed with the second confirmation application.