Holiday when on UC

HillStreetBlues

strawb_shortcake said:

Some jobs you'd need to disclose very personal information, from finances to relationships to what websites you frequent. Same jobs may also bar you from travelling to certain countries.

But that's probably being facetious...

I agree with that, but that should be in the contract a person signs, not at the whim of manager. What you have to disclose is the crux at issue. Is it in the agreement a person has made claiming the benefit, or is it just the whim of a DWP staff member.

Grumpy_chap

HillStreetBlues said:

With UC you are either inside or outside of GB, there is no such thing as a holiday. 

Well, OK.
Someone already put upthread why knowing where you are travelling, when and for how long could be relevant information to a UC claim if there is an individual actually working overseas and also claiming UC in UK.  I can see that it might be deemed discriminatory if only some people were asked so the practice might be to ask everyone.

8dayweek

Most public and civil servants have to inform their employer if they’re travelling abroad to certain (“red list”) countries. 

The reason the destination is asked on the UC is sometimes stuff happens in the world, and sometimes there are then certain easements on benefit recipients who are stuck in that part of the world for a period longer than anticipated. 

Nobody gives one where you’re going - absence abroad of less than one month doesn’t even flag to anyone to review when it’s reported. 

Pollycat

HillStreetBlues said:

Grumpy_chap said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Pollycat said:

If I was on benefits, and was asked a question by DWP (and had nothing to hide) I'd answer the question.
Why wouldn't you?

If you claim benefits, you play by DWP rules.

If you were employed would you answer any question your employer asked?

Yes.

And, in fact, if someone is going on holiday, the conversation does tend to naturally turn to where they are going and wishing them a nice time.  If I was at work, or a social environment, or any other environment for that matter, I'd find it a bit odd if someone was going away and evaded the question about where.  I don't in any way see it as prying and there is no need to give great detail if you don't want to.

The only time I have been in an environment where an individual was booking annual leave but cagey about where they were going / what they were doing, it turned out they were moonlighting with a competitor.  Not everyone goes on holiday when booking annual leave, but will typically share whatever their alternative is - decorating / building a shed / kids activity / whatever

I didn't ask about just the holiday I did states "any question"   would you answer any question an employer asked?

Just because a person is on benefits it shouldn't mean that they can be asked any question and have to answer it. The poster is seeking if they do have to answer this question. (I don't feel the question in their journal is to wish them a nice time).

HillStreetBlues said:

Grumpy_chap said:

HillStreetBlues said:

I didn't ask about just the holiday I did states "any question"   would you answer any question an employer asked?

Yes.
I would.
What do I have to hide?

You would answer every intimate personal question as you have nothing to hide?

Why don't you just stay on topic instead of muddying the waters?
The OP was asked a specific question by a specific organisation.
Nothing to do with 'intimate personal' questions.
Nothing to do with their employer.

And just a reminder of what this board is for:

Its about helping people get their entitlement! Not about benefits policy!

This board is here for help and support for those on or looking to claim benefits, not for judgement.

Its ONLY focus is helping people with their money.

It's here to help people find out what they are entitled to under the current system, and to help them get it.

Benefits provide a lifeline for many, and this site is here to help people with their money, and not to judge. Of course, how to illegally defraud the benefits system shouldn't be discussed here, but ensuring you're getting your entitlement is exactly what it’s about.

The OP is asking a question about whether the DWP can 'insist' on a benefits receiver declaring their holiday destination so is already on the edge of discussing benefits policy without posters going off topic.

born_again

https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit#:~:text=You can continue to get,Wales (known as 'approved convalescence')

So asking where someone is going (aside from the customer engagement by rep) is a genuine question. If someone was to say example "Australia". Then that opens up the how long for? Would also be fair to ask why, due to the effect on timescales allowed.

So given the mention of contract, then yes it is fair & required question be be asked given the implications of someone not informing UC they are going to be out of country for longer than allowed 🤷‍♀️

Muttleythefrog

There's also the point that travel abroad might not actually mean abroad for UC purposes and that could change. Definitely see genuine reasons for them asking - it also could affect contact details as presumably telephone number will change and that is liable to be country dependant. 

HillStreetBlues

Pollycat said:

.
The OP is asking a question about whether the DWP can 'insist' on a benefits receiver declaring their holiday destination so is already on the edge of discussing benefits policy without posters going off topic.

Yes that's what the OP asked, so what you or anyone else would do it totally irrelevant, the OP never asked for personal opinions.
You don't seem to know the relevant benefit law so surprised you felt the need to comment, as clearly your post would be no help the the OP.

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

There's also the point that travel abroad might not actually mean abroad for UC purposes and that could change. Definitely see genuine reasons for them asking - it also could affect contact details as presumably telephone number will change and that is liable to be country dependant. 

There might be a genuine reason for asking, but that doesn't address the question about needing to tell them.
It might be wise to answer, it might be polite to answer,  but if refusing to answer would that affect the claim?

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

There's also the point that travel abroad might not actually mean abroad for UC purposes and that could change. Definitely see genuine reasons for them asking - it also could affect contact details as presumably telephone number will change and that is liable to be country dependant. 

There might be a genuine reason for asking, but that doesn't address the question about needing to tell them.
It might be wise to answer, it might be polite to answer,  but if refusing to answer would that affect the claim?

I would imagine it falls into the same line as failing to report a change because essentially that is what it is/implies. As I pointed out... there will be presumably at least one associated change of contact details. Therefore if nothing can particularly be found in the rules I would expect that is the angle it would be looked at from if there was to be a refusal to provide information and DWP challenged the claimant. I think it is pointless taking that discussion any further (without any specific points relevant in the rules)  because as we know UC often will ask questions that you may or may not feel relevant... good examples of the latter come from these pseudo random reviews where transactions are queried and often where they clearly won't affect entitlement or involve any changes... things like monthly payment to a utility provider... in such cases it is I'd say less clear cut. In the case of going overseas it seems it invokes change of circumstances that could affect entitlement or affect fundamental details the claimant is required to notify of changes regarding. So in such circumstances it would be a clear 'provide the information' from me as indeed it could affect the claim - others have provided the example of being unable to return home within month... if claimant says they're holidaying in France but later claims they couldn't return home due to closure of airspace for a week over Pakistan then there's an issue... on the other hand if they'd said they were going to Pakistan and are stuck unable to fly home.. and what if they report going to the Isle of Man.. is that abroad or not for UC purposes.. the information is required to process the claim so on your question the answer could affect the claim and refusal presumably too for reasons above regarding change of details.

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

There's also the point that travel abroad might not actually mean abroad for UC purposes and that could change. Definitely see genuine reasons for them asking - it also could affect contact details as presumably telephone number will change and that is liable to be country dependant. 

There might be a genuine reason for asking, but that doesn't address the question about needing to tell them.
It might be wise to answer, it might be polite to answer,  but if refusing to answer would that affect the claim?

I would imagine it falls into the same line as failing to report a change because essentially that is what it is/implies. As I pointed out... there will be presumably at least one associated change of contact details. Therefore if nothing can particularly be found in the rules I would expect that is the angle it would be looked at from if there was to be a refusal to provide information and DWP challenged the claimant. I think it is pointless taking that discussion any further (without any specific points relevant in the rules)  because as we know UC often will ask questions that you may or may not feel relevant... good examples of the latter come from these pseudo random reviews where transactions are queried and often where they clearly won't affect entitlement or involve any changes... things like monthly payment to a utility provider... in such cases it is I'd say less clear cut. In the case of going overseas it seems it invokes change of circumstances that could affect entitlement or affect fundamental details the claimant is required to notify of changes regarding. So in such circumstances it would be a clear 'provide the information' from me as indeed it could affect the claim - others have provided the example of being unable to return home within month... if claimant says they're holidaying in France but later claims they couldn't return home due to closure of airspace for a week over Pakistan then there's an issue... on the other hand if they'd said they were going to Pakistan and are stuck unable to fly home.. and what if they report going to the Isle of Man.. is that abroad or not for UC purposes.. the information is required to process the claim so on your question the answer could affect the claim and refusal presumably too for reasons above regarding change of details.

With UC it's never what might happen, it's what has happened, so if issues occur, then report.
If a person is on holiday outside GB as for whatever reason they don't return in a month the UC ends, it doesn't matter where they are, it's very rigid. something like ESA is a lot more flexible. In saying that ESA  requires you to report when you're away from home.
As we know DWP aren't always best trained or fully up to date, so a reason a person is asked where they are going could relate to ESA (maybe also JSA)  where staff would have a right to ask.