Octopus Snug and clock issues

Jackie62

Hi, we have just gone over to Snug tariff. Things have not been going too well. I look after my elderly, unwell Mum, in a house which gets cold in Winter. We have been enjoying the benefits of 9p per Kwh at cheap rate, but now the clock, controlled by Octopus and our SMETS2 meter, has gone wrong!
The heating has been coming on at 8pm instead of 11pm, turning off at 11.30pm, then turning back on at Midnight! We get the hour boost from 3pm to 4pm, which really does help.
I've just got off the phone to Octopus, a rather arrogant and unhelpful customer services person. Talked over me when I was trying to explain our situation and how this needs fixing ASAP. My Mum suffers with anxiety too and it's really not helping. I've been told that they have escalated the issue, with an outcome by next Tuesday. It's been going on since 20th October. No doubt the next bill will be sky high because of this clock error and I expect full reimbursement.
Has anyone else had this type of error happen with Snug Octopus? If so, how long did it take to sort out, if indeed it was?
Not such a good company in my opinion, especially to not fix the issue for an elderly, vulnerable person on their Priority Register, thanks. 

QrizB

Jackie62 said:

... but now the clock, controlled by Octopus and our SMETS2 meter, has gone wrong!

Why do you think its gone wrong?

Jackie62 said:

The heating has been coming on at 8pm instead of 11pm, turning off at 11.30pm, then turning back on at Midnight!

Octopus can vary the hours as part of the Snug tariff. This isn't necessarily an error.

Jackie62 said:

It's been going on since 20th October. No doubt the next bill will be sky high because of this clock error and I expect full reimbursement.

You should have had at least one bill since the 20th of October. Have you checked it?

Your off-peak times have changed, but are you being charged at off-peak rates during those periods? Or have you been charged at peak rates?

Netexporter

If you want the cheap rate at fixed times you need to be on the Cosy tariff, Snug is an intelligent tariff, so the cheap slots vary in their timing because they are based on the half-hourly wholesale price of electricity.

QrizB

Netexporter said:

If you want the cheap rate at fixed times you need to be on the Cosy tariff, Snug is an intelligent tariff, so the cheap slots vary in their timing because they are based on the half-hourly wholesale price of electricity.

Indeed.

From the Octopus Snug FAQ:

As part of your smart schedule, we aim to charge your storage heaters between 00:30 and 06:30 when electricity is cheapest and greenest. Often this happens in short bursts overnight. Sometimes smart charging will take place outside of this window, but don't worry, you'll be billed the off-peak rate for those times.

We'll also smart charge your storage heaters for an hour in the afternoon to keep your home warm and cosy throughout the evening – this will be charged at the off-peak rate. 

My bold in the para above.

Swipe

Also worth downloading the Octopus app and checking what was billed at off peak.

Rosie1001

Can you check your app 

I do get a random slot before midnight most days 


ring back and ask someone else , I have no issues with the customer services so I’m surprised 

why do you think the heating is coming on at those times ?? Do you have a light on your heaters that show this ???

Scot_39

Whilst Snug is dynamic - I have never seen a user post an app or online portal chart that shows it activating as early as 8pm at night.  So if happening correctly at that time - it would be nice to see a chart like the Rosie1001 example above.

And if it is happening incorrectly - ALCS heating activated - but rates still at daytime - thats exactly the sort of evidence you will need to have proof when issue a complaint - if have a bad CS reaction to your questions. 

But you really IMO have not(*) - you've had a CS tell you they are escalating it to the correct teams

(Sadly that was not the the experience of Rosie1001 at her previous supplier - who privided the above example - when they installed new smart meters and then got into a mess with E7 and E10 settings / tariffs etc - she struggled with front line CS for days / weeks - in the process having to learn far more about meters and tariffs operation on them - than suppliers should ever expect their customers to need - to get the message they had messed up across in the end)

(*) Personally I dont think its reasonable to expect an ordinary CS rep - to handle the detail of complex metering and tariffs like Snug - and their actions - escalating up to expert team in this case - the correct and only reasonable response you should / could expect.

Do you have an android / apple smart phone or tablet to run their app ?

I am not an Octopus customer - but do they have similar info available on your mother's online account portal -  and do you have access to it ?

But if the energy is cheap at that time of night in a region - then it is possibly that might well happen - but again wouldn't expect given say wind patterns over the last month or so - for it to be consistently 8pm.

It's far more common for it to only shift a little - around what I call the tariffs core overnight hours - 0030 to 0630 - where the cheap (9p still ?) rate should be charged every night.  

Seen a few charts for 1030pm, 11pm more common - sometimes like the above example only for half an hour - reverts than back - but do not remember an 8pm. 

I do remember reading one user claiming longer in another forum - 10 hours but no Octopus tariff chart to back it up iirc - which might have gotten close to 8pm though - if that was overnight - and ended still at 0630.  

But the whole point of Snug is it is dynamic - with heaters under Octopus's control.  It can and has changed for others - not necessarily daily - but certainly over time.

The 2300 to 2330 and midnight 00:00 to 0030 - slots in the app daily rate / use chart example above - charged at 9p - are perfect example of the dynamic control by Octopus for Snug - "gifting" additional cheap rate slots to users when available.  They are not guaranteed under the tariff T&Cs.

So as the opening two paras above - its key that you understand the variable nature - and your mum does too - so as to not assume the worst - when something changes. 

But I really also do agree a jump by 3 hours - would spook many.  It would certainly prompt me to go back to detailed charts to check - or to customer services as you now have.

Given that complexity - if you can get your head around it - the need to have access to data to check 

a) if when changes its all operating correctly to re-assure your mother 

or 

b) or to prove that it isn't in order to defend her if it's wrong.  But only if you can. It isnt your job to diagnose the issue - if there is one.

The fact you still get the 1 hour afternoon boost - and it is 3-4pm as many others have posted during GMT - does suggest you are still under Snug dynamic scheduling for the afternoon slot - and as it is actually happening at the correct time - not an obvious fault with the meter's actual time.

But if you cannot - not everyone is good at such things - and frankly should not have to be - it should be 100% the responsibility of suppliers to support the flexibility smart meters they supply provide.

So yes an ordinary CS op should help - and certainly not be dismissive - but as in your case - in terms of resolving the core complaint - acted correctly IMO - and has escalated it to an internal team with the necessary knowledge.  The customer service OPs at Octopus though from memory of other posts can sometimes tell their clients like your mum - if Snug isn't working for your meter properly - did they say one way or another ?

So the primary concern - as you have highlighted - should be on rates around the new 8pm - 11pm slots.

You need ideally as above - a chart like the one above from Rosie1001 - showing the usage - ideally in kWh rather than £ and the charge rate per the actual billing history for some of these days.

And you can go back historically - possibly for the last 13 months - as the info is available in the meters for Octopus to retrieve it to feed the app.  So you should be able to find an 11pm from Oct  AFAIK to compare against

If you can get sample charts and post here - great - and someone will talk you through them if not obviously good or bad to you.

If not please let us know the Octopus team response next Tues / Wed.

Rosie1001

In the app you can also access your bill and scroll down to see the detailed usage 

this might help showing the switching times 

I would definitely ring them or email , I have found them very good using both things and get them to escalate to smart meter team 

Rosie1001

I’ve just checked , I had mine come on around 8 pm be other day , but it doesn’t happen regularly 

Edit , just checked back , it happened on the 4th December as well 

QrizB

Rosie1001 said:

I’ve just checked , I had mine come on around 8 pm be other day , but it doesn’t happen regularly 
Edit , just checked back , it happened on the 4th December as well 

Thank you @Rosie1001 with that information the OP should be able to check their bill and confirm whether or not thre really is a problem with their metering.

@Jackie62 have you had an opportunity to look at your bills yet?

Scot_39

Rosie1001 said:

I’ve just checked , I had mine come on around 8 pm be other day , but it doesn’t happen regularly 

Edit , just checked back , it happened on the 4th December as well 

Thanks Rosie1001.

Exactly what the OP needs to see in her mothers case -  to reassure them both.

And thanks for the other days that also show more minor variations in tge pattern - again so as they are reassured dynamic is normal behaviour -  like the change in 1130pm to midnight slot despite starting off peak at 11 - sometimes going back standard as app chart, sometimes not on bill details.

But just the evidence others have seen the same 8pm start should help,  if they do have to wait for CS / Octopus response early next week.

Proof that Octopus really are being that generous when markets allow.  Giving if ive scanned the chart correctly a total of 11hrs off peak not just core 6 overnight +1 = 7 hrs to their customers.