VS6 Miami - LHR Thursday 27th November - Flight Cancelled - thoughts please

Fifefamily

Flight was due to leave at 17:10. Thunder and lightening and rain in Miami area from 2pm for an hour is so. Incoming flight VS5 was scheduled to land at 14:50 however it was diverted to Orlando to land due to the weather. Crew then ran out of hours so unable to bring plane back to Miami, therefore Virgin cancelled the flight and on the letter they issued they have said no compensation is due as the disruption was beyond their control and due to the weather. The weather was perfectly fine at the scheduled departure time but obviously no plane to depart on.
This was the only plane that diverted to land elsewhere during this storm with many planes landing at the expected arrival time. I will acknowledge that some planes were later in landing due to the weather.
Ultimately are Virgin correct with their opinion that no compensation is payable? It is many years since I frequented this board so my recollection may not be what it was but I thought that flights delayed/cancelled as a consequence of a knock on effect, weather in this instance, would still be eligible for compensation whereas those on the original (VS5) would not be?

dumpster_fire2025

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/airline-customer-service-dashboard

Although Virgin are not on there I'd suggest that they'd consider this an "uncontrollable" delay and you are entitled to nothing.

Westin

IMO - Virgin are correct.

MattMattMattUK

I agree with the previous posters, Virgin are correct.

Grumpy_chap

I'd agree that Virgin are correct with regard to compensation but I also understand that Virgin should have provided "care" during the period of the delay.

eskbanker

Fifefamily said:

Ultimately are Virgin correct with their opinion that no compensation is payable? It is many years since I frequented this board so my recollection may not be what it was but I thought that flights delayed/cancelled as a consequence of a knock on effect, weather in this instance, would still be eligible for compensation whereas those on the original (VS5) would not be?

The issue of knock-on delays is case-specific, so if, for example, a BA flight into Heathrow was cancelled, then there'd be a reasonable expectation that they ought to be able to rustle up a spare plane and crew for subsequent flights that would otherwise have been affected (or at least accept compensation claims if they were unable to do so).

However, when the issue relates to a remote network location, where spares aren't likely to be available, then it's generally valid for the airline to reject claims under the extraordinary circumstances provisions.

There's also an element of time in the analysis too, in that there is EU case law for knock-on delays not being considered extraordinary circumstances but only in the specific circumstances of that case, where there was a period of a couple of days between the original incident and a delayed or cancelled flight.

Bearing in mind that the test is cancellation "caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken", it's the latter part of that sentence that comes into play, and so I'd agree with the above posters that Virgin are likely to be able to argue that they did all they reasonably could, and that compensation isn't payable.

Fifefamily

eskbanker 

Bearing in mind that the test is cancellation "caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken", it's the latter part of that sentence that comes into play, and so I'd agree with the above posters that Virgin are likely to be able to argue that they did all they reasonably could, and that compensation isn't payable.

Thank you and others for your views. Any comments/observations on the aspect that the flight diverted to Orlando rather than waiting to land at Miami which happened for all other flights including other Virgin flights that afternoon?

Westin

Fifefamily said:

eskbanker 

Bearing in mind that the test is cancellation "caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken", it's the latter part of that sentence that comes into play, and so I'd agree with the above posters that Virgin are likely to be able to argue that they did all they reasonably could, and that compensation isn't payable.

Thank you and others for your views. Any comments/observations on the aspect that the flight diverted to Orlando rather than waiting to land at Miami which happened for all other flights including other Virgin flights that afternoon?

Could be fuel.

Could be that the weather was not set to improve and taking a diversion to MCO (where they have ground handling) would be preferable to a divert to Fort Lauderdale or other.

Not sure it really matters at the end of the day.  The flight can’t hold in MIA airspace indefinitely.   VS can’t control the weather.

eskbanker

Fifefamily said:
Any comments/observations on the aspect that the flight diverted to Orlando rather than waiting to land at Miami which happened for all other flights including other Virgin flights that afternoon?

I'd observe that airlines will do all they can to avoid diversions, which are just as disruptive and expensive to them as they are to passengers, so the idea that they'd choose to do so, rather than effectively being forced to, doesn't withstand much scrutiny, and therefore it remains likely that their actions would be deemed reasonable.

Burleysway

The crew may of run out of time, but do they have standby cruise because they not have organise a standby crew to send this plane back to Miami no representatives from virgin We’re on site in Miami we were just told to go to the Delta flight desk and rearrange our own flights and also to have accommodation allocated to us staff behind the Delta counter were very good A good although Be rated by passengers which is not acceptable at no point did a manager from either Delta or virgin appear on the scene. It was absolute chaos. Many aircraft landed within the similar timeslots through the virgin aircraft so why did they not land 

eskbanker

Burleysway said:

The crew may of run out of time, but do they have standby cruise because they not have organise a standby crew to send this plane back to Miami no representatives from virgin We’re on site in Miami we were just told to go to the Delta flight desk and rearrange our own flights and also to have accommodation allocated to us staff behind the Delta counter were very good A good although Be rated by passengers which is not acceptable at no point did a manager from either Delta or virgin appear on the scene. It was absolute chaos. Many aircraft landed within the similar timeslots through the virgin aircraft so why did they not land 

See above....