PCN (52M Failing to Comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)

Ron97

Hi everyone, 

I received a PCN from Greenwich council for the above mentioned reason. One where the restrictions are not 24/7, but timed. Personally, I have no recollection of doing so. So I logged in to see the evidence, and all photos and the video they have is from me driving out if said zone. I know I might be stretching it a bit here, but is that worth appealing? The only "evidence" they provided is me driving through the sign from behind, where it cannot be seen. I attached one of the photos below.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Nobbie1967

That picture shows your car was in the zone. The only way I can see you getting off is if you can find a route into the zone avoiding these signs. I’d assume they have them all around the zone.

Altior

Road signs updated following resident feedback on west and east Greenwich neighbourhood management scheme

Goudy

Appeal on what grounds?

The cameras record traffic at the zones boundaries, both in and out because you may have driven into the zone outside of restricted hours then drive out within restricted hours. 

If that's your car and you are driving within those restricted hours, then I can't see a route to a successful appeal. 
Your car is being driven behind the sign so you were driving in the zone.

Mildly_Miffed

Are you suggesting that there's a route into the zone which does not pass the restriction signs? Can you prove that you reached that point without passing any signs?

The reason they've sent that photo is to help you identify the driver and vehicle. They will certainly have other images of you entering the zone via a clearly signed route.

The fact you "don't recall" suggests you simply need to pay a bit more attention to signage.

forgotmyname

One way of looking at it...

Inside the zone without a permit seems to say your guilty.

The fact you drove into the zone outside the restricted times does not matter, you were inside/exiting the zone during the
restricted time without a permit.

Or....

I don't know the area so unsure of the signage other than that pictured. Do you need a permit to own a car if you live
within the zone?  Or could you get away with not having a permit if you only drive in/out outside the restricted hours?

What if you bought a car or collected a car inside the zone, can you not drive it out until the restricted hours are up?

Mildly_Miffed

forgotmyname said:

I don't know the area so unsure of the signage other than that pictured. Do you need a permit to own a car if you live within the zone?  Or could you get away with not having a permit if you only drive in/out outside the restricted hours?

What if you bought a car or collected a car inside the zone, can you not drive it out until the restricted hours are up?

It's a Low Traffic Neighbourhood. The only vehicles allowed to use the roads within the zone during those hours are those of holders of N1 permits. Residents are eligible to purchase those permits.

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2024/west-and-east-greenwich-traffic-management-scheme-update-were-making-changes-based-your#

jimjames

We have a similar zone near us (School Street) but it only is triggered if you drive into the zone in the restricted times. There is nothing against being parked inside the zone and driving out in those times so would be worth checking if the same applies in this instance if you were parked there overnight on a driveway for example.

facade

Mildly_Miffed said:

forgotmyname said:

I don't know the area so unsure of the signage other than that pictured. Do you need a permit to own a car if you live within the zone?  Or could you get away with not having a permit if you only drive in/out outside the restricted hours?

What if you bought a car or collected a car inside the zone, can you not drive it out until the restricted hours are up?

It's a Low Traffic Neighbourhood. The only vehicles allowed to use the roads within the zone during those hours are those of holders of N1 permits. Residents are eligible to purchase those permits.

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2024/west-and-east-greenwich-traffic-management-scheme-update-were-making-changes-based-your#

Out of morbid curiosity, how much is such a permit?  I couldn't see it on that page, which is usually a sign that it is expensive! 

Goudy

facade said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

forgotmyname said:

I don't know the area so unsure of the signage other than that pictured. Do you need a permit to own a car if you live within the zone?  Or could you get away with not having a permit if you only drive in/out outside the restricted hours?

What if you bought a car or collected a car inside the zone, can you not drive it out until the restricted hours are up?

It's a Low Traffic Neighbourhood. The only vehicles allowed to use the roads within the zone during those hours are those of holders of N1 permits. Residents are eligible to purchase those permits.

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2024/west-and-east-greenwich-traffic-management-scheme-update-were-making-changes-based-your#

Out of morbid curiosity, how much is such a permit?  I couldn't see it on that page, which is usually a sign that it is expensive! 

From what I have read there's no cost as such. There are only exemptions.

So if you are a resident of that areas and have a Blue Badge you are exempt.
You can also apply for an exemption for a few other reasons, like being a carer, plus there is a business exemption (I'm sure there's a cost to that).
I haven't heard of a plain residents exemption, though that's not to say it doesn't exist, it's likely an extra charge on top of your, already expensive parking permit.

Part of the idea behind the zone is because there was a massive problem with traffic cutting through the area to Blackheath and the A2 instead of following the main roads either via Deptford or through Greenwich to the Woolwich road junction.

The "shortcuts" took traffic up narrow residential streets either side of the park, clogging them to such an extent that drivers have become aggressive at times. Proper nasty car ramming and punch ups.

I've witnessed many a barney after traffic coming down the hill wouldn't give way to traffic coming up the hill even though their side of the road was blocked due to parked cars.
It became a short cut that took twice as long and I haven't even considered using it in around 4 years.

For years they had width restrictions on these roads, but the problem only got worse so I can see why they council have decided on a different approach.

Mildly_Miffed

facade said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

forgotmyname said:

I don't know the area so unsure of the signage other than that pictured. Do you need a permit to own a car if you live within the zone?  Or could you get away with not having a permit if you only drive in/out outside the restricted hours?

What if you bought a car or collected a car inside the zone, can you not drive it out until the restricted hours are up?

It's a Low Traffic Neighbourhood. The only vehicles allowed to use the roads within the zone during those hours are those of holders of N1 permits. Residents are eligible to purchase those permits.

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2024/west-and-east-greenwich-traffic-management-scheme-update-were-making-changes-based-your#

Out of morbid curiosity, how much is such a permit?  I couldn't see it on that page, which is usually a sign that it is expensive! 

Assuming it's the same as parking permits, then it's CO2 and fuel-type dependent, with a surcharge for second and subsequent permits per household.
https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/parking-transport-and-streets/apply-controlled-parking-zone-cpz-parking-permit/check-resident

So £61/year at the low end for a single ZEV, to £306 for a high-CO2 car plus £51 for a diesel plus £102 for a second car giving £456/year.

It's London. It has excellent public transport.