lodgers and cooking on the landing

Albermarle

BungalowBel said:

user1977 said:

BungalowBel said:

Chat GPT gave me this answer:

Please don't just copy and paste AI slop as answers to queries, they're rarely helpful (plus the OP can do that themselves if they want). Its answer about insurance looks like nonsense for a start.

Sorry, I was trying to find out myself and thought it would be helpful.  Won't bother again.

No need to say sorry. It is just one posters opinion. You can post what you like as long as it does not break forum rules.

Section62

Albermarle said:

BungalowBel said:

user1977 said:

BungalowBel said:

Chat GPT gave me this answer:

Please don't just copy and paste AI slop as answers to queries, they're rarely helpful (plus the OP can do that themselves if they want). Its answer about insurance looks like nonsense for a start.

Sorry, I was trying to find out myself and thought it would be helpful.  Won't bother again.

No need to say sorry. It is just one posters opinion. You can post what you like as long as it does not break forum rules.

Which do say...

"....This includes posts we believe have been generated by AI. Artificial intelligence can be a useful tool – MSE has its own AI features – but the Forum is a place for real people to share their experiences and insights."

I'm not sure whether posting a copy and paste of an AI answer is a breach of the forum rules, but user1977 had a valid point.  AI answers often contain nonsense, and in this case the non-nonsense information had already been posted by other forum members.

The OP's situation is rather nuanced - and not really suitable for an AI answer.  If it was more of a legal question I suspect the wise forum heads would say it was impossible to give a definitive answer and to consult a professional solicitor instead.  Unfortunately there isn't a 'professional solicitor' equivalent who could answer the OP's query.

Slinky

Section62 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

AIUI, the need for PAT-testing does not apply in the OP's case.

The OP has a Lodger (s) living in the OP's own home.

AIUI, PAT-testing applies to work place and guest houses etc.  There is also a requirement for a LL letting a whole property under AST to provide electrical safety checks and this might also include PAT-testing of LL-provided items within the checks.

AIUI, the need for PAT-testing does not apply to a room let to a Lodger.

Maybe someone else will comment if there is definitive clarification to the contrary.

I think the issue here is that having a kitchen on a landing of what is supposed to be a protected stairway is such a departure from the norm that perhaps getting the appliances PAT checked would give the OP some level of defence if one of them decided to self-immolate and trap one of the lodgers in their room.  It wouldn't necessarily get them off a manslaughter charge, but would at least show that some effort had been made to manage risk.

AIUI there is no specific legal requirement for PAT testing in any case - PAT testing is simply a common method used by those who have a duty of care to demonstrate they have done something positive to manage risk.

This is why I asked the question about PAT testing. We didn't legally require it to rent out our property (in 2017), we got all our electrical things checked so we were seen to be decent landlords. PAT is a bit misleading, things don't  need to actually be portable. We had anything electrical at all checked including things like the pump for the shower. It was only a few pounds per item.

monkey-fingers

OP, probably time to close the thread.

As always, we're off down rabbit holes. PAT isn't relevant here.

Section62

monkey-fingers said:

OP, probably time to close the thread.

As always, we're off down rabbit holes. PAT isn't relevant here.

You are welcome to have a different opinion, but as has been explained, getting the remaining appliances PAT tested would be a way for the OP to demonstrate that the considerable risk involved in having electrical appliances on a protected stairway was being managed to some extent.

Don't confuse "not a legal requirement" with "serves no purpose".

If the OP cannot say when the cord of the fridge (say) was last checked to make sure it wasn't damaged then the option of getting PAT testing done by a third party is relevant to the OP's situation.

Grumpy_chap

Slinky said:

PAT is a bit misleading, things don't  need to actually be portable

The "portable" in PAT simply means that the item is plugged in, not a comment on the size of the item.  So an American Style Fridge Freezer which is plugged in is portable.

markin

travelodger said:

Thanks everyone for your intelligent and considered replies. I genuinely appreciate this discussion and your input because this is a matter of life and death and I now feel slightly ashamed of not "keeping my eye on the ball" in regard to what I now shrink at calling the "kitchenette" - what else can I call it, if I don't want to mislead by using a word that suggests cooking may be carried out there?

"Drinks prep area" won't cut it because there are a lot of meals one can make without cooking: salads, sandwiches, pre-packaged supermarket egg mayo, cold pasta salads, pre-cooked chicken, deli foods, etc, and hot things made with a kettle such as Cup-a-Soups and Pot Noodles. My main concern is that nothing is cooked there which will be left unattended.

I'm really worried about the microwave now!!! Quite a few of you have stated that it's not safe. There has been one up there for 25 years (not the same one, obviously!) without incident, but that does not mean there will never be an incident. Yet it feels really mean to take the microwave away. I could insert a clause in the House Rules reminding lodgers that no metal objects or tin foil are to be put inside it, and that it must be kept clean because of the risk of fire. 

I am nearly 70 and have been using microwave ovens for decades. I have never heard of or read about one catching fire.

Yes, there is a smoke detector on the ceiling. And a BCF fire extinguisher. I could also buy a fire blanket and have that screwed to the wall next to the microwave. I do wonder though, if lodgers, when faced with a fire and engulfed in a mad panic, will have the presence of mind to actually USE a fire blanket or an extinguisher. I could mention them in the House Rules and ask that lodgers familiarise themselves on how to use them (watch a YouTube video, perhaps?)

So, to recap, the air fryer, toaster and hob are to go, the kettle and fridge remain, but we are undecided about the microwave.

 

At 70 is it not time to sell up and buy a smaller house now and enjoy peace and quiet in your own home?

If they eat in their rooms its not like they are even good company.

Also Add to any agreement they are not to charge E-bike, Or Scooters in the house.

You may want to actually remove the power sockets so only the MW and fridge can be plugged in.

Also just spotted that the Socket may be to close to the sink, Is it RCD protected?

Grumpy_chap

markin said:

At 70 is it not time to sell up and buy a smaller house now and enjoy peace and quiet in your own home?

I don't think it is appropriate to write people off at the young age of 70!

WIAWSNB

Grumpy_chap said:

markin said:

At 70 is it not time to sell up and buy a smaller house now and enjoy peace and quiet in your own home?

I don't think it is appropriate to write people off at the young age of 70!

Jeepers! I'm not far off masel'! 

In fact I've never felt so hea

Grumpy_chap

WIAWSNB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

markin said:

At 70 is it not time to sell up and buy a smaller house now and enjoy peace and quiet in your own home?

I don't think it is appropriate to write people off at the young age of 70!

Jeepers! I'm not far off masel'! 

In fact I've never felt so hea

Oh dear @WIAWSNB seems to have expired mid-sentence or totally lost their train of thought and faded away.  Still, it's what we have to expect from those of their vintage.