lodgers and cooking on the landing

powerful_Rogue

travelodger said:

Grumpy_chap said:

travelodger said:

Thanks, everyone.

I'm really glad I posted this thread now because it has given me a lot to think about. 

Lots of different opinions have been posted in reply, which is great.

DreamsofPretzels. I'm not going to get rid of the whole set up. There is nothing wrong with having cupboards, a fridge and a sink with mains water. It would be cruel to make lodgers descend two storeys just to get a drink of tap water or make a cup of tea!

The local authority have no jurisdiction over a private home with lodgers and have no legal right to enter my home. We have a fire extinguisher on the wall (and on every storey) but I doubt any lodger knows how to use one. The spilled oil is a very good point, so the hob and the air fryer are being removed today. 

Monkey, I never thought about toasters catching fire. I doubt any of the lodgers ever empty or clean it. So I will get rid of that, too.  

So from today there will be only a fridge, kettle and microwave.

Thanks again, everyone!

Could you compromise and exchange the microwave for a combination microwave with grill?

That would make everything look neater and more contained but still allow normal cooking (like an air fryer) or grilling toast so mitigate the loss of the separate appliances.

As well as saying it is safer and neater for there to be less clutter, you could also say that the electric circuits are not properly rated for everything at once.

Could you tolerate the hob if it was at the other end of the array so no risk of spills / dropping down the stairwell?

Sorry, I don't find any of those options appealing. The more I think about it, the more I realise how much danger lies in that innocent looking facility. How easy to put something under the grill, go into your bedroom, sit down and fall asleep, burning your housemates to death. 

Even if the hob was at the other end, it would be underneath a wall unit, no extractor to remove steam or grease in the air. Spattering a painted wall. The whole hob thing is just a terrible idea. We have a perfect good, newly refitted kitchen downstairs.

Bit extreme. Presuming you have a working smoke alarm on the top floor?

travelodger

Thanks everyone for your intelligent and considered replies. I genuinely appreciate this discussion and your input because this is a matter of life and death and I now feel slightly ashamed of not "keeping my eye on the ball" in regard to what I now shrink at calling the "kitchenette" - what else can I call it, if I don't want to mislead by using a word that suggests cooking may be carried out there?

"Drinks prep area" won't cut it because there are a lot of meals one can make without cooking: salads, sandwiches, pre-packaged supermarket egg mayo, cold pasta salads, pre-cooked chicken, deli foods, etc, and hot things made with a kettle such as Cup-a-Soups and Pot Noodles. My main concern is that nothing is cooked there which will be left unattended.

I'm really worried about the microwave now!!! Quite a few of you have stated that it's not safe. There has been one up there for 25 years (not the same one, obviously!) without incident, but that does not mean there will never be an incident. Yet it feels really mean to take the microwave away. I could insert a clause in the House Rules reminding lodgers that no metal objects or tin foil are to be put inside it, and that it must be kept clean because of the risk of fire. 

I am nearly 70 and have been using microwave ovens for decades. I have never heard of or read about one catching fire.

Yes, there is a smoke detector on the ceiling. And a BCF fire extinguisher. I could also buy a fire blanket and have that screwed to the wall next to the microwave. I do wonder though, if lodgers, when faced with a fire and engulfed in a mad panic, will have the presence of mind to actually USE a fire blanket or an extinguisher. I could mention them in the House Rules and ask that lodgers familiarise themselves on how to use them (watch a YouTube video, perhaps?)

So, to recap, the air fryer, toaster and hob are to go, the kettle and fridge remain, but we are undecided about the microwave.

 

travelodger

WIAWSNB said:

 I presume there's plenty dedicated storage space in the downstairs kitchen?

 make it purely drinks prep, and make the fridge commensurately tiny - milk and cold drinks.

There is just enough storage in the proper kitchen for everyone to have their own cupboard, yes.

The upstairs fridge is just a regular, under-the-counter type. No need to change it to a counter top one, leaving a big empty gap beneath!

silvercar

A student house I lived in in the 80s had a kitchen like this on the top floor. Only difference was that certain appliances didn’t exist in the 80s, though we did have grease ridden sandwich toasters that we used for more than just toasted sandwiches. As well as a standard toaster and kettle.

Also, and this may be key, there was a wired glass wall across the divide between the stairs and the landing, with a door at the stairs.

bobster2

travelodger said:

Yes, there is a smoke detector on the ceiling. And a BCF fire extinguisher. I could also buy a fire blanket and have that screwed to the wall next to the microwave. I do wonder though, if lodgers, when faced with a fire and engulfed in a mad panic, will have the presence of mind to actually USE a fire blanket or an extinguisher. I could mention them in the House Rules and ask that lodgers familiarise themselves on how to use them (watch a YouTube video, perhaps?)

All good. But the reason such a setup would not comply with building regulations in new construction - is that nobody should have their only means of escape from their bedroom to the outdoors - via a route that contains kitchen appliances (basically a kitchen).

If you have a kitchen appliance fire there - to escape from their bedrooms they have to walk past the fire.

In fact having appliances in the bedroom (although probably more likely to lead to a fire in the first place) would likely be safer from an escape perspective. They can go into the hall (not on fire) and shut the door behind them.

travelodger

Thank you Bobster. I never thought of it like that. Ironically, I would never allow cooking inside bedrooms, yet I have permitted a potentially dangerous situation to arise in the hall, owing to my kindness in wanting to make it easy for lodgers to make drinks and simple meals without having to climb so many stairs down and then back up again.

I need to have a complete re-think. Particularly as 25 years ago I was a young, fit woman who was trained (by a former employer) in the use of fire extinguishers and could race up the stairs if need be. I am now a disabled and decrepit old pensioner who gets to the top floor at the pace of a particularly lazy snail.

user1977

WIAWSNB said:

travelodger said:

bobster2 said:

Do they have to eat their dinners in their bedroom? Can't they eat them at a kitchen / dining room table?

I make it clear in my adverts, and when potential new lodgers come to view, that the ground floor fully equipped kitchen comes as part of the deal, along with the adjoining dining room (a lovely conservatory with a glass roof) but in practise only about 1 in 10 lodgers ever seems to use the dining room. They prefer to eat in their bedrooms. I suppose they are watching something on TV, Youtube, Netflix etc or just prefer slobbing on their beds instead of sitting upright on a chair. I can only provide and suggest; it's not my business to order how people actually lead their everyday lives unless it infringes the house rules.

(It is certainly very common for hotel rooms to have tea making facilities, and a sink. Microwave? Not so sure

Yes, plenty of studio-ish rooms available with some form of kitchen area. But the difference is that's inside a bedroom (with a self-closing fire-rated door, and then another fire door separating the corridor from the staircase), not on the building's only staircase and escape route.

WIAWSNB

If folk relocate a kitchen or build a new one in their homes, it needs to comply with Building Regs - all sorts of stuff regarding electrics, fire risk, extraction. I would suggest that your setup is currently a 'kitchen' in most respects, but certainly does not conform. 

A cold food prep area should be fine. A kettle ditto. And that should really be the extent of it. 

The microwave is a bit tricky, as it's something you provided and now 'expect'. So if you intend to allow that to remain, then it must be a MW only, designed to 'heat' but not 'cook' (I know what I mean!). Ie, no grill and no oven elements, fan or otherwise. 

You need to do this, as the consequences could be simply hellish, the least of which could be your insurance being voided in the event of a fire. 

travelodger

WIAWSNB said:

If folk relocate a kitchen or build a new one in their homes, it needs to comply with Building Regs - all sorts of stuff regarding electrics, fire risk, extraction. I would suggest that your setup is currently a 'kitchen' in most respects, but certainly does not conform. 

A cold food prep area should be fine. A kettle ditto. And that should really be the extent of it. 

The microwave is a bit tricky, as it's something you provided and now 'expect'. So if you intend to allow that to remain, then it must be a MW only, designed to 'heat' but not 'cook' (I know what I mean!). Ie, no grill and no oven elements, fan or otherwise. 

You need to do this, as the consequences could be simply hellish, the least of which could be your insurance being voided in the event of a fire. 

Yeah it's just a small, simple mw with no grill or anything. I am going to rewrite the house rules specifying the limitations of the use of the landing facility. Drinks, cold food prep and microwaveable ready meals. 

Thanks again, everyone. I have taken heed of everything said.

ouraggie

The only thing i would add to the discussion is that air frying is now a highly popular method of cooking. a lot of young people like them. Also they are an economical way to cook food. Might there be room in your downstairs kitchen for it? Then they ( and you!) can continue using it.