lodgers and cooking on the landing

travelodger

ouraggie said:

The only thing i would add to the discussion is that air frying is now a highly popular method of cooking. a lot of young people like them. Also they are an economical way to cook food. Might there be room in your downstairs kitchen for it? Then they ( and you!) can continue using it. 

We have a huge, double-basket top-of-the-range one in the main kitchen. 

WIAWSNB

travelodger said:

ouraggie said:

The only thing i would add to the discussion is that air frying is now a highly popular method of cooking. a lot of young people like them. Also they are an economical way to cook food. Might there be room in your downstairs kitchen for it? Then they ( and you!) can continue using it. 

We have a huge, double-basket top-of-the-range one in the main kitchen. 

Oh, and one more question - when can I move in? 

On a serious note, it is worth considering the fallout should a related accident or fire occur. What would the fire service make of this? What about your house insurance? And that's without any injuries or worse. 

travelodger

WIAWSNB said:

On a serious note, it is worth considering the fallout should a related accident or fire occur. What would the fire service make of this? What about your house insurance? And that's without any injuries or worse. 

This is unnecessary because nowhere have I proposed keeping the set up as it is. The AF, toaster and hob have already been removed. The only debate left is whether a small, simple, two-button microwave is a fire risk.

WIAWSNB

travelodger said:

WIAWSNB said:

On a serious note, it is worth considering the fallout should a related accident or fire occur. What would the fire service make of this? What about your house insurance? And that's without any injuries or worse. 

This is unnecessary because nowhere have I proposed keeping the set up as it is. The AF, toaster and hob have already been removed. The only debate left is whether a small, simple, two-button microwave is a fire risk.

I just don't know.
There are two issues - is it a 'fire risk'? I'd suggest for a non-oven/grill MW it's 'no', or certainly not a significant one. Ie, no more than a kettle, heater, TV, etc. all items that you could have in, say, a bedroom.
But the other issue is, does it break any regs? I don't know, but imagine not. 
I bet lots of teenager bedrooms have MWs in them, as well as heaters, amps, TVs and stuff. If the MW be the one to cause a fire, would the house insurance shout 'void'?! I can't see it. 
I think there would have to be demonstrable negligence, like - I dunno - it being left unattended, or previous near-missus, or it sat on the carpet, or known to be faulty, stuff like that.
Having said that, I still consider there's a world of difference between a pure MW and an 'oven' type.
And this MW is not even in a bedroom, and has a smokie placed above it. 
But, I don't know - sorry.

Section62

WIAWSNB said:

travelodger said:

WIAWSNB said:

On a serious note, it is worth considering the fallout should a related accident or fire occur. What would the fire service make of this? What about your house insurance? And that's without any injuries or worse. 

This is unnecessary because nowhere have I proposed keeping the set up as it is. The AF, toaster and hob have already been removed. The only debate left is whether a small, simple, two-button microwave is a fire risk.

...
But the other issue is, does it break any regs? I don't know, but imagine not. 
...

I think the issue isn't so much as whether the microwave poses a fire risk or not, but rather whether the provision of a sink, fridge, units, worktop, kettle, and microwave constitutes a 'kitchen'.  The more kitchen-like the arrangement, the harder it is to argue the space isn't a kitchen but instead meets the requirements of a 'protected stairway'.

From what the OP has described I think for new work the regulations would require the provision of a protected stairway, or else an external fire escape/escape window (but needs confirming by a BR expert).  Whether the stairway (minus kitchen) qualified as a protected stairway isn't clear, but the addition of a kitchen-like arrangement within the stairway means even if it was, it is no longer 'protected'.

The regs relating to fire and means of escape have been changed a fair bit since Grenfell, so some digging would need to be done to see what applied at the time the kitchen was installed, but AIUI although the stairway might not have needed to be 'protected' when the property was built, the work to install the kitchen was probably within the scope of building regulations and therefore the stairway being protected (or not) would have been a relevant factor.

So whether any regs were broken probably depends on when the kitchen-like fittings were installed, and whether the first and second floor rooms have a compliant alternative means of escape.

BungalowBel

travelodger said:

theartfullodger said:

No way as a landlord (since 2000/..) would allow cooking on a landing.

in your opinion is it OK for my lodgers to have a kettle, toaster and microwave there?

I personally would say not.  I do not think it would comply with Building Regs for a start.

I would take the whole lot out.  

mlz1413

I am a bit late to this thread, but think the tenants have over stepped the mark getting cooking facilities up there.

Without ventilation the ceiling is going to have grease and stains from whatever is cooked on the hob, even if it is only 1 ring.

I would tell them it goes back to what you provided or you will give them notice.

If you end up losing them as tenants then you can have a re-think of what you provide. 

Water for a kettle and a fridge for milk would be nice, the sort of thing a hotel room provides. That only requires the sink and worktop over the fridge. 

The other cupboards could be removed and keep the worktop to make a breakfast bar with stools so they can eat.

If they have to climb 2 storeys with hot food so be it, new tenants will know this from the start.

Or remove the units that aren't needed and put a hoover,  mop & bucketand coat hooks there, then it is a storage area and can't be converted for food prep.

travelodger

Thanks Bungalow for going to all that trouble. I am an old lady and did not think to ask ChatGPT. 
Thanks to everyone else for replies, too.

Thanks Mlz for putting in your 2p worth. They aren't tenants but lodgers, aka house guests and they do as I say. Nobody is going to be told to leave. The hob, AF and toaster have been removed. The rest will stay.

I can't think of anything uglier than having mops and buckets and a hoover on display on a landing. The place would look like a homeless hostel!

travelodger

WIAWSNB said: Oh, and one more question - when can I move in?

Next Saturday! A lodger is moving out today and I am having new carpet and all new furniture installed this week.

Slinky

Regarding the insurance/risk issues, are the remaining electrical appliances PAT tested?