Spending It

MallyGirl

zagfles said:

german_keeper said:

zagfles said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

Nebulous2 said:

As I say I'm a bit out of touch but the price points used to run a bit like this:- A pair of wheels at 2.2kg £120.  Just under 2kg, £200. Just under 1600g £350 Just under 1400g £750. Just under 1200g £2000. 

Same thing for car wheels, but multiply all numbers by 10...

To a large extent, the price/quality curve is irrelevant.  If the product that is 10% better costs twice as much, you have two choices: pay it, or go without.

Or buy two of the cheaper one, then you get 180% of the quality for the same price as 100% 

I treat holidays a bit like that. I'd much rather go on 5 cheap holidays a year than 1 expensive one. And I do seem to be able to do 5 holidays for the price some people pay for 1. 

Just booked 2 weeks self catering in the Algarve next June for £403 each. I usually start the ball rolling and then Mrs GK does the hard yards on Trip Advisor and has the final say. Off to Lanzarote on Tuesday for a week all inclusive about £550 apiece.

It usually works fine but there was a week all inclusive in Fuerteventura back in March, dirt cheap even by our standards, which was a bit challenging. Only booked it because I got a few hundred quid which I didn't expect for my 60th birthday last year.

But it was a real eye opener to go for a diet coke/fanta when the bar opened at 10am and be in a queue of people getting wine/beer/spirits/cocktails. Some strange sights at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and several people we didn't seem to see much in the evenings.

My conclusion was that if your aim is just to drink your own body weight in alcohol every day then you just go for the cheapest option and if the food is a bit ropey and the rooms a bit outdated so what. Still look back on it with a strange sense of enjoyment. Weather was crap too!!    

We rarely do AI, or even packages, mostly just get a cheap flight and find cheap/good value accommodation. But it's no surprise really that alcoholics will seek out holidays with unlimited free booze, why would you go AI unless you intend to make the most of it (or the price is such that it's good value even if you don't drink like a fish). Price aside, a major part of any holiday for us is seeking out good local eateries and bars rather that staying in the hotel. 

Rarely do AI - I took my daughter to one on Gozo she was completing her PADI open water. She was only about 12 and had never seen that early start drinking culture before. Quite an eye opener for her but thankfully we were out of the hotel most days diving. It was just easier to get back tired and not have to find food. 

bjorn_toby_wilde

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

BikingBud said:

Fairness might apply is sports or playing games but surely the criteria here is value for money.

Do I consider the cost presents value.

I do not waste money but if the quality is increased by an uplift in price then is it worth it to me?

Meat pies are to my mind the best example.

A cheap pie has little meat. What there is will likely be the cheap cuts and poor tasteless gravy, that's why it is only a few quid but I am still dissatisfied and will not buy again

Buy a more expensive pie with more, better quality of meat and tasty gravy then the satisfaction rate will be higher and I would buy again.

I might try the pie with the gold leaf on the crust out of curiosity but might find the meat and taste is no better and I am being charged too much for the novelty. So generally will go back to meaty tasty pie. 

Across all consumer expenditure I will apply the same, I know what my daily allowable expenditure is but I won't blow it on something that add little satisfaction and therefore is poor value.

At some point when I decide to disappear on my bike for a few months, living within the daily budget might pay for that posh hotel for a few days vice the roadside camping. When I need a shower and proper bed that will be very good value.

Yup - there's clearly some products where paying more gets you a commensurate increase in quality, but a lot of the time the price uplift vastly exceeds the quality uplift. IIRC some university did a study where they reckoned on average a 50% increase in price gets you a 10% increase in quality.

Obviously there are many exceptions and even stuff where the cheaper item might be better. The problem is a lot of people actually believe the old maxims like "buy cheap buy twice" or "you get what you pay for". But anyone who uses MSE knows they're myths!

I’d be interested to see that study as I wonder what a 10% increase in quality means as price is easier to measure than quality.

A measurable 10% reduction in low light noise on a phone camera might equate to a much higher satisfaction with the final photos, and if there are lots of 10% improvements across the camera including noise, reduced colour fringing, reduced vignette, better colour balance then I might be enough happier with the resulting photos that a 50% higher price is worth it to me.

In fact, I would argue that is what this thread is about, if you are not going to run out of money then getting into the mindset that you can pay 50% for that extra quality because you will get pleasure from it, why not. I’d rather have a few extra happy memories than die with an extra £100k in the bank. I’m going to  buy a slightly more expensive wine as I think it tastes better, even if some scientist tells me most people can’t tell the difference.

Obviously, I’m still going to try and get the best bangs for my buck across all my spending, I might still need to decide if it is the more expensive wine or the camera that gives me most happiness.

ISTR searching for it last time I mentioned it but couldn't find it. Clearly "quality" is mainly subjective, perhaps they asked people to rate the quality, sometimes it'll be objective eg a cheap tin of tomatoes may contain 10% more water and 10% less tomatoes than a branded one but be 50% cheaper, so buying 2 tins of cheap tomatoes for the same price as one tin of branded tomatoes is better value. Assuming same quality of tomatoes. 

I think it's telling how some products eg wine can vary massively in price from a £4 a bottle to hundreds or even thousands of pounds, whereas beer, which IME varies just as much in quality as wine, has nowhere near the same price variability. I suspect the main reason is wine is more of a "posh" drink and there's a lot more snobbery when it comes to wine. 

Wine is interesting because the tax and costs of bottling, transportation and sales mean that a minimum price wine probably costs a few pence a litre to actually make.

This could mean that the difference in price between a £5 bottle and a £10 bottle represents as much as a tenfold increase in production effort, so I’m guessing that somewhere between £8 and £15 a bottle in the supermarket is is a sweet spot. The price is high enough for a distinct improvement in quality but not so high it appears “exclusive”.

Yup that's probably true at the very lower end, but related to this I do find it odd that a pub which sells real ales, which require a lot of care and will have a short shelf life, generally sells for the similar price as mass produced lagers and nitrokeg beers which are dead and require little care. 

Or sells them for even more!

My local sells really excellent real ales for £4.20 a pint but the nearby village pub (which used to be my local) was taken over by a chain and now has managers that couldn’t keep real ales to save their lives.  Their keg “craft” offering is £5.85!

I used to pop in occasionally but can’t bring myself to pay that price for keg fizz. This is where the value thing kicks in. I can afford it but won’t pay because it’s such poor value to pay 45% more to get an inferior product.

Albermarle

MallyGirl said:

zagfles said:

german_keeper said:

zagfles said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

Nebulous2 said:

As I say I'm a bit out of touch but the price points used to run a bit like this:- A pair of wheels at 2.2kg £120.  Just under 2kg, £200. Just under 1600g £350 Just under 1400g £750. Just under 1200g £2000. 

Same thing for car wheels, but multiply all numbers by 10...

To a large extent, the price/quality curve is irrelevant.  If the product that is 10% better costs twice as much, you have two choices: pay it, or go without.

Or buy two of the cheaper one, then you get 180% of the quality for the same price as 100% 

I treat holidays a bit like that. I'd much rather go on 5 cheap holidays a year than 1 expensive one. And I do seem to be able to do 5 holidays for the price some people pay for 1. 

Just booked 2 weeks self catering in the Algarve next June for £403 each. I usually start the ball rolling and then Mrs GK does the hard yards on Trip Advisor and has the final say. Off to Lanzarote on Tuesday for a week all inclusive about £550 apiece.

It usually works fine but there was a week all inclusive in Fuerteventura back in March, dirt cheap even by our standards, which was a bit challenging. Only booked it because I got a few hundred quid which I didn't expect for my 60th birthday last year.

But it was a real eye opener to go for a diet coke/fanta when the bar opened at 10am and be in a queue of people getting wine/beer/spirits/cocktails. Some strange sights at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and several people we didn't seem to see much in the evenings.

My conclusion was that if your aim is just to drink your own body weight in alcohol every day then you just go for the cheapest option and if the food is a bit ropey and the rooms a bit outdated so what. Still look back on it with a strange sense of enjoyment. Weather was crap too!!    

We rarely do AI, or even packages, mostly just get a cheap flight and find cheap/good value accommodation. But it's no surprise really that alcoholics will seek out holidays with unlimited free booze, why would you go AI unless you intend to make the most of it (or the price is such that it's good value even if you don't drink like a fish). Price aside, a major part of any holiday for us is seeking out good local eateries and bars rather that staying in the hotel. 

Rarely do AI - I took my daughter to one on Gozo she was completing her PADI open water. She was only about 12 and had never seen that early start drinking culture before. Quite an eye opener for her but thankfully we were out of the hotel most days diving. It was just easier to get back tired and not have to find food. 

I have never done AI, so was not aware of the queuing to get a drink at 10.00 am .

I like a drink, but that's a bit early !

Having said that in Brit orientated foreign resorts, you often see people in the morning tucking into a Full English with a pint of lager . Although a bit of a weird mix in my opinion.

Albermarle

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

BikingBud said:

Fairness might apply is sports or playing games but surely the criteria here is value for money.

Do I consider the cost presents value.

I do not waste money but if the quality is increased by an uplift in price then is it worth it to me?

Meat pies are to my mind the best example.

A cheap pie has little meat. What there is will likely be the cheap cuts and poor tasteless gravy, that's why it is only a few quid but I am still dissatisfied and will not buy again

Buy a more expensive pie with more, better quality of meat and tasty gravy then the satisfaction rate will be higher and I would buy again.

I might try the pie with the gold leaf on the crust out of curiosity but might find the meat and taste is no better and I am being charged too much for the novelty. So generally will go back to meaty tasty pie. 

Across all consumer expenditure I will apply the same, I know what my daily allowable expenditure is but I won't blow it on something that add little satisfaction and therefore is poor value.

At some point when I decide to disappear on my bike for a few months, living within the daily budget might pay for that posh hotel for a few days vice the roadside camping. When I need a shower and proper bed that will be very good value.

Yup - there's clearly some products where paying more gets you a commensurate increase in quality, but a lot of the time the price uplift vastly exceeds the quality uplift. IIRC some university did a study where they reckoned on average a 50% increase in price gets you a 10% increase in quality.

Obviously there are many exceptions and even stuff where the cheaper item might be better. The problem is a lot of people actually believe the old maxims like "buy cheap buy twice" or "you get what you pay for". But anyone who uses MSE knows they're myths!

I’d be interested to see that study as I wonder what a 10% increase in quality means as price is easier to measure than quality.

A measurable 10% reduction in low light noise on a phone camera might equate to a much higher satisfaction with the final photos, and if there are lots of 10% improvements across the camera including noise, reduced colour fringing, reduced vignette, better colour balance then I might be enough happier with the resulting photos that a 50% higher price is worth it to me.

In fact, I would argue that is what this thread is about, if you are not going to run out of money then getting into the mindset that you can pay 50% for that extra quality because you will get pleasure from it, why not. I’d rather have a few extra happy memories than die with an extra £100k in the bank. I’m going to  buy a slightly more expensive wine as I think it tastes better, even if some scientist tells me most people can’t tell the difference.

Obviously, I’m still going to try and get the best bangs for my buck across all my spending, I might still need to decide if it is the more expensive wine or the camera that gives me most happiness.

ISTR searching for it last time I mentioned it but couldn't find it. Clearly "quality" is mainly subjective, perhaps they asked people to rate the quality, sometimes it'll be objective eg a cheap tin of tomatoes may contain 10% more water and 10% less tomatoes than a branded one but be 50% cheaper, so buying 2 tins of cheap tomatoes for the same price as one tin of branded tomatoes is better value. Assuming same quality of tomatoes. 

I think it's telling how some products eg wine can vary massively in price from a £4 a bottle to hundreds or even thousands of pounds, whereas beer, which IME varies just as much in quality as wine, has nowhere near the same price variability. I suspect the main reason is wine is more of a "posh" drink and there's a lot more snobbery when it comes to wine. 

Wine is interesting because the tax and costs of bottling, transportation and sales mean that a minimum price wine probably costs a few pence a litre to actually make.

This could mean that the difference in price between a £5 bottle and a £10 bottle represents as much as a tenfold increase in production effort, so I’m guessing that somewhere between £8 and £15 a bottle in the supermarket is is a sweet spot. The price is high enough for a distinct improvement in quality but not so high it appears “exclusive”.

Yup that's probably true at the very lower end, but related to this I do find it odd that a pub which sells real ales, which require a lot of care and will have a short shelf life, generally sells for the similar price as mass produced lagers and nitrokeg beers which are dead and require little care. 

Or sells them for even more!

My local sells really excellent real ales for £4.20 a pint but the nearby village pub (which used to be my local) was taken over by a chain and now has managers that couldn’t keep real ales to save their lives.  Their keg “craft” offering is £5.85!

I used to pop in occasionally but can’t bring myself to pay that price for keg fizz. This is where the value thing kicks in. I can afford it but won’t pay because it’s such poor value to pay 45% more to get an inferior product.

However I would bet that even in your new local, the majority of drinkers still order the expensive gassy lager/keg craft stuff  rather than the real ale. Unless maybe all the clients are over 50.

Moonwolf

MallyGirl said:

zagfles said:

german_keeper said:

zagfles said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

Nebulous2 said:

As I say I'm a bit out of touch but the price points used to run a bit like this:- A pair of wheels at 2.2kg £120.  Just under 2kg, £200. Just under 1600g £350 Just under 1400g £750. Just under 1200g £2000. 

Same thing for car wheels, but multiply all numbers by 10...

To a large extent, the price/quality curve is irrelevant.  If the product that is 10% better costs twice as much, you have two choices: pay it, or go without.

Or buy two of the cheaper one, then you get 180% of the quality for the same price as 100% 

I treat holidays a bit like that. I'd much rather go on 5 cheap holidays a year than 1 expensive one. And I do seem to be able to do 5 holidays for the price some people pay for 1. 

Just booked 2 weeks self catering in the Algarve next June for £403 each. I usually start the ball rolling and then Mrs GK does the hard yards on Trip Advisor and has the final say. Off to Lanzarote on Tuesday for a week all inclusive about £550 apiece.

It usually works fine but there was a week all inclusive in Fuerteventura back in March, dirt cheap even by our standards, which was a bit challenging. Only booked it because I got a few hundred quid which I didn't expect for my 60th birthday last year.

But it was a real eye opener to go for a diet coke/fanta when the bar opened at 10am and be in a queue of people getting wine/beer/spirits/cocktails. Some strange sights at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and several people we didn't seem to see much in the evenings.

My conclusion was that if your aim is just to drink your own body weight in alcohol every day then you just go for the cheapest option and if the food is a bit ropey and the rooms a bit outdated so what. Still look back on it with a strange sense of enjoyment. Weather was crap too!!    

We rarely do AI, or even packages, mostly just get a cheap flight and find cheap/good value accommodation. But it's no surprise really that alcoholics will seek out holidays with unlimited free booze, why would you go AI unless you intend to make the most of it (or the price is such that it's good value even if you don't drink like a fish). Price aside, a major part of any holiday for us is seeking out good local eateries and bars rather that staying in the hotel. 

Rarely do AI - I took my daughter to one on Gozo she was completing her PADI open water. She was only about 12 and had never seen that early start drinking culture before. Quite an eye opener for her but thankfully we were out of the hotel most days diving. It was just easier to get back tired and not have to find food. 

We get AI on river cruises, which we have done a couple because that is how they work.

On european beach holidays we actively avoid resorts with a high proportion of AI because it ruins the local restaurant and bar scene and we really enjoy trying a few different ones.

Time4T_Accounts

Albermarle said:

Having said that in Brit orientated foreign resorts, you often see people in the morning tucking into a Full English with a pint of lager . Although a bit of a weird mix in my opinion.

Don’t need to go abroad to see that : just look in the local ‘spoons …!!

Time4T_Accounts

My daughter doesn’t ‘get’ that I’ll pay much more for fresh fruit and veg in my supermarket of choice than she does in Aldi or Lidl, simply because I’ve got better things to do with my time than stand in the discounters’ interminably long queues!

Cobbler_tone

I think this just shows how those fortunate enough to be comfortable value their money in different ways. I’ll spend nearly £800 a month on groceries for two of us. I like good produce and love cooking and we rarely eat out….that’s as vegetarians. Whereas some people blow £100 on a bang average meal.
Would definitely travel first class but wouldn’t pay £300 for two West End tickets. 

Not adverse to a good all inclusive, there are some excellent ones with 6 or 7 restaurants and not ridiculous.

bjorn_toby_wilde

Albermarle said:

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

Moonwolf said:

zagfles said:

BikingBud said:

Fairness might apply is sports or playing games but surely the criteria here is value for money.

Do I consider the cost presents value.

I do not waste money but if the quality is increased by an uplift in price then is it worth it to me?

Meat pies are to my mind the best example.

A cheap pie has little meat. What there is will likely be the cheap cuts and poor tasteless gravy, that's why it is only a few quid but I am still dissatisfied and will not buy again

Buy a more expensive pie with more, better quality of meat and tasty gravy then the satisfaction rate will be higher and I would buy again.

I might try the pie with the gold leaf on the crust out of curiosity but might find the meat and taste is no better and I am being charged too much for the novelty. So generally will go back to meaty tasty pie. 

Across all consumer expenditure I will apply the same, I know what my daily allowable expenditure is but I won't blow it on something that add little satisfaction and therefore is poor value.

At some point when I decide to disappear on my bike for a few months, living within the daily budget might pay for that posh hotel for a few days vice the roadside camping. When I need a shower and proper bed that will be very good value.

Yup - there's clearly some products where paying more gets you a commensurate increase in quality, but a lot of the time the price uplift vastly exceeds the quality uplift. IIRC some university did a study where they reckoned on average a 50% increase in price gets you a 10% increase in quality.

Obviously there are many exceptions and even stuff where the cheaper item might be better. The problem is a lot of people actually believe the old maxims like "buy cheap buy twice" or "you get what you pay for". But anyone who uses MSE knows they're myths!

I’d be interested to see that study as I wonder what a 10% increase in quality means as price is easier to measure than quality.

A measurable 10% reduction in low light noise on a phone camera might equate to a much higher satisfaction with the final photos, and if there are lots of 10% improvements across the camera including noise, reduced colour fringing, reduced vignette, better colour balance then I might be enough happier with the resulting photos that a 50% higher price is worth it to me.

In fact, I would argue that is what this thread is about, if you are not going to run out of money then getting into the mindset that you can pay 50% for that extra quality because you will get pleasure from it, why not. I’d rather have a few extra happy memories than die with an extra £100k in the bank. I’m going to  buy a slightly more expensive wine as I think it tastes better, even if some scientist tells me most people can’t tell the difference.

Obviously, I’m still going to try and get the best bangs for my buck across all my spending, I might still need to decide if it is the more expensive wine or the camera that gives me most happiness.

ISTR searching for it last time I mentioned it but couldn't find it. Clearly "quality" is mainly subjective, perhaps they asked people to rate the quality, sometimes it'll be objective eg a cheap tin of tomatoes may contain 10% more water and 10% less tomatoes than a branded one but be 50% cheaper, so buying 2 tins of cheap tomatoes for the same price as one tin of branded tomatoes is better value. Assuming same quality of tomatoes. 

I think it's telling how some products eg wine can vary massively in price from a £4 a bottle to hundreds or even thousands of pounds, whereas beer, which IME varies just as much in quality as wine, has nowhere near the same price variability. I suspect the main reason is wine is more of a "posh" drink and there's a lot more snobbery when it comes to wine. 

Wine is interesting because the tax and costs of bottling, transportation and sales mean that a minimum price wine probably costs a few pence a litre to actually make.

This could mean that the difference in price between a £5 bottle and a £10 bottle represents as much as a tenfold increase in production effort, so I’m guessing that somewhere between £8 and £15 a bottle in the supermarket is is a sweet spot. The price is high enough for a distinct improvement in quality but not so high it appears “exclusive”.

Yup that's probably true at the very lower end, but related to this I do find it odd that a pub which sells real ales, which require a lot of care and will have a short shelf life, generally sells for the similar price as mass produced lagers and nitrokeg beers which are dead and require little care. 

Or sells them for even more!

My local sells really excellent real ales for £4.20 a pint but the nearby village pub (which used to be my local) was taken over by a chain and now has managers that couldn’t keep real ales to save their lives.  Their keg “craft” offering is £5.85!

I used to pop in occasionally but can’t bring myself to pay that price for keg fizz. This is where the value thing kicks in. I can afford it but won’t pay because it’s such poor value to pay 45% more to get an inferior product.

However I would bet that even in your new local, the majority of drinkers still order the expensive gassy lager/keg craft stuff  rather than the real ale. Unless maybe all the clients are over 50.

Haha. I know what you mean but actually it’s a real mix. They do have a lively craft trade but it’s surprising to me how many youngsters are ordering the hand pulled real ales and they’re often very knowledgeable.

They only do two lager style beers and they’re not cheap, so the place doesn’t attract the same clientele as most pubs. It’s always busy though so they seem to have the right formula.

german_keeper

Albermarle said:

MallyGirl said:

zagfles said:

german_keeper said:

zagfles said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

Nebulous2 said:

As I say I'm a bit out of touch but the price points used to run a bit like this:- A pair of wheels at 2.2kg £120.  Just under 2kg, £200. Just under 1600g £350 Just under 1400g £750. Just under 1200g £2000. 

Same thing for car wheels, but multiply all numbers by 10...

To a large extent, the price/quality curve is irrelevant.  If the product that is 10% better costs twice as much, you have two choices: pay it, or go without.

Or buy two of the cheaper one, then you get 180% of the quality for the same price as 100% 

I treat holidays a bit like that. I'd much rather go on 5 cheap holidays a year than 1 expensive one. And I do seem to be able to do 5 holidays for the price some people pay for 1. 

Just booked 2 weeks self catering in the Algarve next June for £403 each. I usually start the ball rolling and then Mrs GK does the hard yards on Trip Advisor and has the final say. Off to Lanzarote on Tuesday for a week all inclusive about £550 apiece.

It usually works fine but there was a week all inclusive in Fuerteventura back in March, dirt cheap even by our standards, which was a bit challenging. Only booked it because I got a few hundred quid which I didn't expect for my 60th birthday last year.

But it was a real eye opener to go for a diet coke/fanta when the bar opened at 10am and be in a queue of people getting wine/beer/spirits/cocktails. Some strange sights at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and several people we didn't seem to see much in the evenings.

My conclusion was that if your aim is just to drink your own body weight in alcohol every day then you just go for the cheapest option and if the food is a bit ropey and the rooms a bit outdated so what. Still look back on it with a strange sense of enjoyment. Weather was crap too!!    

We rarely do AI, or even packages, mostly just get a cheap flight and find cheap/good value accommodation. But it's no surprise really that alcoholics will seek out holidays with unlimited free booze, why would you go AI unless you intend to make the most of it (or the price is such that it's good value even if you don't drink like a fish). Price aside, a major part of any holiday for us is seeking out good local eateries and bars rather that staying in the hotel. 

Rarely do AI - I took my daughter to one on Gozo she was completing her PADI open water. She was only about 12 and had never seen that early start drinking culture before. Quite an eye opener for her but thankfully we were out of the hotel most days diving. It was just easier to get back tired and not have to find food. 

I have never done AI, so was not aware of the queuing to get a drink at 10.00 am .

I like a drink, but that's a bit early !

Having said that in Brit orientated foreign resorts, you often see people in the morning tucking into a Full English with a pint of lager . Although a bit of a weird mix in my opinion.

We have done maybe 10 or so AI over the years. Did a few when the kids were young and probably saved a small fortune. Dad I've spilt my drink. Well go and get another one then. Dad I don't like my food. Well go and get something else then.

Never really seen the "professional" drinkers until the one in March. Closest I can remember was Jan 2020 in Tenerife. The draught beer was self service and there were some German couples who just sat in the bar and seemed to drink for about 12 hours a day. Needless to say they spoke good Englsh and were very good company, rather more charming than the British versions we saw in Fuerteventura.