Another sad cancelled wedding question

Okell

I would hope he's well aware of that already...

FadingGinger

Okell said:

I would hope he's well aware of that already...

I am.  That would be a decision to be taken by the former couple should we get to that point......  I hope not to.

The tricky part is that it was mainly organised by the former bride to be and understandably she's not in great shape just now, especially for wedding related matters; hence my getting involved to try and minimise the damage for them.

Incidentally, probably not very useful but I've discovered that the accommodation (cabins, shepherds huts etc) is also marketed via airbnb and cancellable up to 3 days before on that platform.  It's not directly comparable as two night minimum going that route and I think higher rates.  I doubt their occupancy rate is great in November.

As for the hospitality margin figures - really? Overall?!  Clearly I've been in the wrong business all my life - in my business our target EBIT is 5%.  Much higher turnover, but still!

Renfrewman

Grumpy_chap said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Catering is usually 65-70% GP. 

That aligns with the rule of thirds I referenced upthtread.

10 years ago perhaps...not now. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

FadingGinger said:

As for the hospitality margin figures - really? Overall?!  Clearly I've been in the wrong business all my life - in my business our target EBIT is 5%.  Much higher turnover, but still!

GP is before other overheads (staff, rent, rates, utilities, plates, cooking oil, whatever), basically if you buy a sausage roll for 30p your net selling price should be around £1 for 70% GP. 

So if the the company doesn't have to buy the food and drink, as a benchmark 30% of the cost is a benefit to them which they should refund. 

I say if as they might have already ordered it, they may not have a right to cancel or they may face some kind of fee for cancelling. If they insisted they had to pay full price for the food I don't see why you aren't entitled to it. 

Ideally they'd breakdown their costs and profits and say we are giving you £x back and then you could decide whether they are being accurate or not, with them saying they are retaining full payment* it's all guess work. 

*They've refunded the accommodation, I'm not sure if they'd off set that against the whole contract or whether it's specifically for the accommodation as some kind of goodwill. 

FadingGinger said:

Incidentally, probably not very useful but I've discovered that the accommodation (cabins, shepherds huts etc) is also marketed via airbnb and cancellable up to 3 days before on that platform.  It's not directly comparable as two night minimum going that route and I think higher rates.  I doubt their occupancy rate is great in November.

They can have different terms for different customers, it's all based on the contract terms you have.   

Grumpy_chap

FadingGinger said:

As for the hospitality margin figures - really? Overall?!  Clearly I've been in the wrong business all my life - in my business our target EBIT is 5%.  Much higher turnover, but still!

60 - 70% GP would be EBIT in the range 3 - 5% assuming the business is working well.

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

FadingGinger said:

As for the hospitality margin figures - really? Overall?!  Clearly I've been in the wrong business all my life - in my business our target EBIT is 5%.  Much higher turnover, but still!

... *They've refunded the accommodation, I'm not sure if they'd off set that against the whole contract or whether it's specifically for the accommodation as some kind of goodwill. 

FadingGinger said:

Incidentally, probably not very useful but I've discovered that the accommodation (cabins, shepherds huts etc) is also marketed via airbnb and cancellable up to 3 days before on that platform.  It's not directly comparable as two night minimum going that route and I think higher rates.  I doubt their occupancy rate is great in November.

They can have different terms for different customers, it's all based on the contract terms you have.   

In respect of the accommodation I think it's the T&Cs the guests have signed up to that might tbe the problem, and whether they were able to cancel the accommodation - whether within 3 days, within 6 weeks, or at all.

The venue have overcomplicated matters by refunding what they've called the accommodation costs to the OP rather than to the guests who paid those costs.  They may think by doing so they have more than sufficiently refunded the OP, but if the OP does the right thing (passes the refunds onto the guests if they are entitled to refunds) then he is no better off from receiving that refund

Strictly speaking the OP needs to find out whether the refund earmarked as "accommodation costs" was refundable at all under the T&Cs guests signed up to.  If it was, then he really needs to pass it on to the guests, because that is who the hotel should have refunded in the first place

If it wasn't, then the OP can keep the accommodation costs as part of his refund and has no legal obligation to pass it on to the guests.  However, if I were a guest I would not be very happy about that...

If I were the OP I'd want to ask the guests what their accommodation T&Cs said about cancellation.

(When I refer to the OP I'm using that as a convenient label for whoever is the consumer contracting party here)

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

In respect of the accommodation I think it's the T&Cs the guests have signed up to that might tbe the problem, and whether they were able to cancel the accommodation - whether within 3 days, within 6 weeks, or at all.

The venue have overcomplicated matters by refunding what they've called the accommodation costs to the OP rather than to the guests who paid those costs.  They may think by doing so they have more than sufficiently refunded the OP, but if the OP does the right thing (passes the refunds onto the guests if they are entitled to refunds) then he is no better off from receiving that refund

Strictly speaking the OP needs to find out whether the refund earmarked as "accommodation costs" was refundable at all under the T&Cs guests signed up to.  If it was, then he really needs to pass it on to the guests, because that is who the hotel should have refunded in the first place

If it wasn't, then the OP can keep the accommodation costs as part of his refund and has no legal obligation to pass it on to the guests.  However, if I were a guest I would not be very happy about that...

If I were the OP I'd want to ask the guests what their accommodation T&Cs said about cancellation.

(When I refer to the OP I'm using that as a convenient label for whoever is the consumer contracting party here)

I might have misunderstood but assumed OP paid £x for a wedding + accommodation and the guests paid OP for the accommodation (or paid the venue direct under the OP's booking).

If it transpires the guests have their own contract for accommodation and that has been refunded then I don't see it has anything to do with the OP's contract for the rest. 

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

In respect of the accommodation I think it's the T&Cs the guests have signed up to that might tbe the problem, and whether they were able to cancel the accommodation - whether within 3 days, within 6 weeks, or at all.

The venue have overcomplicated matters by refunding what they've called the accommodation costs to the OP rather than to the guests who paid those costs.  They may think by doing so they have more than sufficiently refunded the OP, but if the OP does the right thing (passes the refunds onto the guests if they are entitled to refunds) then he is no better off from receiving that refund

Strictly speaking the OP needs to find out whether the refund earmarked as "accommodation costs" was refundable at all under the T&Cs guests signed up to.  If it was, then he really needs to pass it on to the guests, because that is who the hotel should have refunded in the first place

If it wasn't, then the OP can keep the accommodation costs as part of his refund and has no legal obligation to pass it on to the guests.  However, if I were a guest I would not be very happy about that...

If I were the OP I'd want to ask the guests what their accommodation T&Cs said about cancellation.

(When I refer to the OP I'm using that as a convenient label for whoever is the consumer contracting party here)

I might have misunderstood but assumed OP paid £x for a wedding + accommodation and the guests paid OP for the accommodation (or paid the venue direct under the OP's booking).

If it transpires the guests have their own contract for accommodation and that has been refunded then I don't see it has anything to do with the OP's contract for the rest. 

Ah - good point.

I had assumed guests had booked and paid separately, but I may have misconstrued what the OP said: "Reality is that this money was paid separately by guests planning to stay at the venue so withholding this would have caused a lot of aggro to them from many people".

And yes - my point is that if the guests paid separately then the venue refunding those accommodation costs to the OP is a red herring and nothing to do with the OP's refund.

MeteredOut

We're going to a wedding in another part of the country next year, and have paid for 2 nights at the wedding hotel directly, but at a special rate related to the wedding booking. In the very unlikely chance the wedding is called off, we'd still use that room and have a weekend away. I'd not be happy if the hotel refunded the room to the wedding party just because the wedding was cancelled (and there's nothing in our booking T&Cs that would allow for that).

I suspect (hope) any accommodation refund to the OP was because they paid it in the first place.

FadingGinger

The accommodation side is very confusing - to me also and the Ts & Cs for the main event shed no light on it!  I'll have to enquire deeper into it.  Definitely the refund was made as a lump sum to contracting couple and has already been returned to the those who'd booked the accommodation.  This had all been sorted before I was even made aware of the wider problem.  I was told that the bookings were made and paid for separately, but will verify this as it seems a very odd way to do things.  

Pretty sure no one will have been wanting to keep their booking.