Another sad cancelled wedding question

FadingGinger

Hi All – long time lurker but first time poster looking for advice, new insights and a sanity check.

Back story is that my son recently found it necessary to break off his engagement  5 weeks and 4 days before the planned wedding.  This was a huge shock to both families and has caused massive trauma, which I’ll not dwell on.

Amongst the many other bits of fallout from this implosion is dealing with the wedding venue, who were informed the day after the collapse.  I have already done some reading around on this forum and found some relevant and helpful stuff which brings a bit of hope. This one was particularly useful:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703165/wedding-cancellation-lost-deposit/p1

To be clear, we realise that we will take a substantial hit and have no wish to deprive the venue of costs incurred or any reasonable profits that they might have made.  However, at this point, though they claim to be “as devasted as you are”, the sad reality seems to be that they are happy to take extra profit from our horrible situation.  And that is not ok.

The couple did sign a contract with them – unfortunately without taking any advice.  They also paid by bank transfer and did not take out insurance – though most policies seem to exclude this cause anyway.  Money came from the couple themselves with substantial contributions from both families.

A  total of £ 15,275 was paid comprising:

- Deposit/damage deposit   £ 1,000.00 (Always returnable unless damage caused)

- Venue hire                         £ 4,438.50 (in three payments of £ 1,479.50) sliding scale of refund,                                                  nothing within 3 months.

- Accommodation totalling   £ 2,600.00 (not separately defined - within venue hire?)

- Catering, drinks & service £ 7,236.00 (6 week refund period)

By the letter of the contract, nothing within the 6 week period is refundable.  However, we’ve done a little better than that.

The £ 1,000 deposit has been refunded. No event = no damage, so difficult to defend keeping that!

The £ 2,600 accommodation has been refunded though they made a big fuss about how generous they were being.  Reality is that this money was paid separately by guests planning to stay at the venue so withholding this would have caused a lot of aggro to them from many people.  They claim that even at this level of refund they will be making a loss on the weekend.  At this point they retain £11,675 for doing very little, so I’m unsympathetic!

The venue hire we do not expect to get back.  Fair enough. It’s unlikely they’ll get another booking at this point though they do do events other than weddings and don’t appear to be even attempting to advertise it at this point.

The catering and drinks payment though, they are dead set on keeping in its entirety.  If we were closer to the event I’d be more sympathetic, but just 2.5 working days outside a fairly lengthy deadline I’m thinking that they are not actually in a materially different position than they were before the deadline.

I’ve therefore politely proposed that they return the catering/service cost less the accommodation cost already returned (£4,439).  This leaves them with £ 7k for doing very little.  To me this seems like a sweet deal for them. Am I wrong?

This has been flatly refused citing huge losses to them (they retain 50% of the money with a big reduction in their costs, so one has to wonder what the margins are in this industry?!)  and the need to stand behind their contract for all for “reasons of fairness to all parties”.

This last is interesting because as I understand it, under UK consumer law, contracts are required to be underpinned by a basic fairness to both sides and not to bring undue advantage to either side.  Not obviously the case here where, as far as I can see, they currently stand to make a handsome additional profit from our position.

My reading and such informal advice that I’ve had so far seems to bear out that in order to actually be enforceable in law a contract needs to meet certain tests of fairness and balance, which this one does not in my opinion.

I’m thinking to point this out in firm but polite terms as my next move, with the promise that I will take legal action (and at the current level of retention I am motivated to do this) demanding a higher figure if they continue to refuse.

Beyond that, some actual real legal advice or small claims court route seem to be possibilities.

Another aspect, suggested by others but which I’m reluctant to do at this point, is to remind them that they take a reputational risk with their current line as there were 90 odd people to be involved at this event, all of whom have some limited understanding of what is going one and some of whom know quite a bit of the detail.  None of them are impressed, especially those with more detail.  The majority are fairly local to the venue and a few of them are quite ready to “go to war”.  I’m discouraging this as unhelpful to negotiations!

Insights, constructive suggestions and sanity check very welcome.

Thank you for reading

 Nick

 

 

 

 

visidigi

Alas these contracts see these sorts of issues a lot, and they're pretty watertight for a reason.

So given you've paid for it...I mean what if you said to them 'okay - throw the party and whoever comes comes' if they aren't going to refund then make them spend the money they would anyway. Is it wasteful? yes. But if they aren't going to be reasonable then I wouldn't be letting them get away with keeping so much.

One would hope some sense would truly prevail from them at that point.

MyRealNameToo

Were they doing the catering themselves or was it being subcontracted?

It's possible they have already paid the subcontractors (or are legally obliged to) and therefore it is a real loss for them. Consumers have more rights than companies do and it may not be possible for them to recover the funds from the caterer if they mirrored your terms. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sorry to hear OP.

They can retain costs or loss of profit and they can only claim loss of profit if they try to find another customer. Granted that may be hard in 5 and a bit weeks. 

Damage deposit is out of the equation as it’s done as it should be. 

The rest could be (partly) balanced against the accommodation refund.
It’s a bit messy really, £11.6k profit off a £14.2k event seems generous to me. 

FrugaiMacDugal

Tell them you'll keep the date, get some cards printed with time and place, dish them out to homeless and immigrants telliing them it's all a freebie, should be a swell party.

mebu60

FrugaiMacDugal said:

Tell them you'll keep the date, get some cards printed with time and place, dish them out to homeless and immigrants telliing them it's all a freebie, should be a swell party.

The venue would likely require return of the damage deposit if there was to be a party.

Grumpy_chap

FadingGinger said:

A  total of £ 15,275 was paid comprising:

- Deposit/damage deposit   £ 1,000.00 (Always returnable unless damage caused)

- Venue hire                         £ 4,438.50 (in three payments of £ 1,479.50) sliding scale of refund,                                                  nothing within 3 months.

- Accommodation totalling   £ 2,600.00 (not separately defined - within venue hire?)

- Catering, drinks & service £ 7,236.00 (6 week refund period)

By the letter of the contract, nothing within the 6 week period is refundable.  However, we’ve done a little better than that.

The £ 1,000 deposit has been refunded. No event = no damage, so difficult to defend keeping that!

The £ 2,600 accommodation has been refunded 

.  They claim that even at this level of refund they will be making a loss on the weekend.  At this point they retain £11,675 for doing very little, so I’m unsympathetic!

 

The venue should try to remarket the now vacant opening.

How is the catering etc. provided?
Is it an external provider?
Are they already committed to paying the staff for the shift even if they don't work?

That £7k for catering, drinks, service.
Ask them to provide you the bottles of bubbles and the wine, and to plate up the full number of meals for takeaway.  You can then freeze them and still be dining on this until Christmas.

marcia_

FrugaiMacDugal said:

Tell them you'll keep the date, get some cards printed with time and place, dish them out to homeless and immigrants telliing them it's all a freebie, should be a swell party.

 I really like this idea 

Emmia

Grumpy_chap said:

FadingGinger said:

A  total of £ 15,275 was paid comprising:

- Deposit/damage deposit   £ 1,000.00 (Always returnable unless damage caused)

- Venue hire                         £ 4,438.50 (in three payments of £ 1,479.50) sliding scale of refund,                                                  nothing within 3 months.

- Accommodation totalling   £ 2,600.00 (not separately defined - within venue hire?)

- Catering, drinks & service £ 7,236.00 (6 week refund period)

By the letter of the contract, nothing within the 6 week period is refundable.  However, we’ve done a little better than that.

The £ 1,000 deposit has been refunded. No event = no damage, so difficult to defend keeping that!

The £ 2,600 accommodation has been refunded 

.  They claim that even at this level of refund they will be making a loss on the weekend.  At this point they retain £11,675 for doing very little, so I’m unsympathetic!

 

The venue should try to remarket the now vacant opening.

How is the catering etc. provided?
Is it an external provider?
Are they already committed to paying the staff for the shift even if they don't work?

That £7k for catering, drinks, service.
Ask them to provide you the bottles of bubbles and the wine, and to plate up the full number of meals for takeaway.  You can then freeze them and still be dining on this until Christmas.

I'd request the bottles of drinks, as they'll store. I'm not sure about the food which at present would presumably be in its raw ingredient form. 

Alternatively I'd send a message out to the guests that the reception is happening and to come and drown the sorrows of the groom.

Renfrewman

marcia_ said:

FrugaiMacDugal said:

Tell them you'll keep the date, get some cards printed with time and place, dish them out to homeless and immigrants telliing them it's all a freebie, should be a swell party.

 I really like this idea 

It's perhaps too late for that as event has been cancelled and refunded, albeit partially?

Grumpy_chap

Emmia said:

Grumpy_chap said:

FadingGinger said:

A  total of £ 15,275 was paid comprising:

- Deposit/damage deposit   £ 1,000.00 (Always returnable unless damage caused)

- Venue hire                         £ 4,438.50 (in three payments of £ 1,479.50) sliding scale of refund,                                                  nothing within 3 months.

- Accommodation totalling   £ 2,600.00 (not separately defined - within venue hire?)

- Catering, drinks & service £ 7,236.00 (6 week refund period)

By the letter of the contract, nothing within the 6 week period is refundable.  However, we’ve done a little better than that.

The £ 1,000 deposit has been refunded. No event = no damage, so difficult to defend keeping that!

The £ 2,600 accommodation has been refunded 

.  They claim that even at this level of refund they will be making a loss on the weekend.  At this point they retain £11,675 for doing very little, so I’m unsympathetic!

 

The venue should try to remarket the now vacant opening.

How is the catering etc. provided?
Is it an external provider?
Are they already committed to paying the staff for the shift even if they don't work?

That £7k for catering, drinks, service.
Ask them to provide you the bottles of bubbles and the wine, and to plate up the full number of meals for takeaway.  You can then freeze them and still be dining on this until Christmas.

I'd request the bottles of drinks, as they'll store. I'm not sure about the food which at present would presumably be in its raw ingredient form. 

But if the venue are still charging the full food cost, they can still cook the food.