Plans for all major energy suppliers to offer at least one low Standing Charge tariff from Jan 2026

matt_drummer

debitcardmayhem said:

And also a bucket for WHD so that those who receive it will see that they are also contributing from their £150 pounds too, I shouldn’t think many who receive it realise it’s not what it seems.

No, they are not contributing from their £150 WHD,

They have already contributed by paying their bills.

Those eligible for WHD receive £150 that those not eligible for WHD do not.

It is exactly what it seems!

debitcardmayhem

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

And also a bucket for WHD so that those who receive it will see that they are also contributing from their £150 pounds too, I shouldn’t think many who receive it realise it’s not what it seems.

No, they are not contributing from their £150 WHD,

They have already contributed by paying their bills.

Those eligible for WHD receive £150 that those not eligible for WHD do not.

It is exactly what it seems!

Semantics, their sc includes an element of WHD as does everyone’s 

matt_drummer

debitcardmayhem said:

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

And also a bucket for WHD so that those who receive it will see that they are also contributing from their £150 pounds too, I shouldn’t think many who receive it realise it’s not what it seems.

No, they are not contributing from their £150 WHD,

They have already contributed by paying their bills.

Those eligible for WHD receive £150 that those not eligible for WHD do not.

It is exactly what it seems!

Semantics, their sc includes an element of WHD 

They still get £150 extra over those that don't get it, they are £150 better off, exactly what it says.

But, perhaps you are correct now I have thought about it more.

So I apologise @debitcardmayhem

I am just a bit touchy about our benefits system right now, it can be quite infuriating for many different people in many different ways!

debitcardmayhem

tmatt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

And also a bucket for WHD so that those who receive it will see that they are also contributing from their £150 pounds too, I shouldn’t think many who receive it realise it’s not what it seems.

No, they are not contributing from their £150 WHD,

They have already contributed by paying their bills.

Those eligible for WHD receive £150 that those not eligible for WHD do not.

It is exactly what it seems!

Semantics, their sc includes an element of WHD 

They still get £150 extra over those that don't get it, they are £150 better off, exactly what it says.

But, perhaps you are correct now I have thought about it more.

So I apologise @debitcardmayhem

I am just a bit touchy about our benefits system right now, it can be quite infuriating for many different people in many different ways!

No need to apologise, this ain’t Twitter and we are all for discussion😎

Scot_39

MeteredOut said:

Dare I add that they should add a separate bill for the net-zero components of the SC?

And the unit rate too as net zero adds to both.

Physical network - new and exsiting and of course the almost as large as TNO spending plans - the big nasty £8bn pa balancing and the £3bn pa grid thermal curtailment.

That total Network new investment and existing maintenance upgrade gets split in two - some fixed costs - some demand related so unit costs.

Ofgem spent a long time on their Charging Review - before deciding not enough of the fixed costs were on the standing charge.  So went near double from pre SoLR to July 24 iirc £103 shift of electric network costs from nuit rates into SC.

And renewables currently once again adding to actual unit rates - via CfD strike prices.

Like the £27 when split last included in the Ofgem quarterly cap letter within the wholesale pricing - for 2700 kWh - so 1p +VAT and overhead / allowances added -  extra for wind CfDs.

At least if these charges were all itemised to the general public - they could decide if the planet was worth the true cost. 

And I suspect they are not - and will not be - will never be under current leadership - because those driving the green agenda - know it will sway many more - already concerned about the combined total costs -  in the public against them.

It would prevent them hiding behind the scapegoats / bogeymen - those awful profiteering energy companies. (You just had to look at the comments section on BBC web in late oops Aug for Oct cap - when the £35 announced to see that strategy  working).

As Oct regional ave cap - wholesale (the scapegoats) cost down £15 ex VAT+margins - average cap up £35.  

£51 minimum - largely imposed by govt policy - present and tweeks to past - by Ofgem (their other shield for DESNZ to hide behind).

michaels

If you don't want to pay for the wires and gas pipes why not disconnect from the grid and buy your electricity in batteries and your gas in cylinders - or perhaps the standing charges are not such a bad deal after all ?

QrizB

michaels said:

If you don't want to pay for the wires and gas pipes why not disconnect from the grid and buy your electricity in batteries ...

I did some calcs on that a while ago (it passes the time on dark winter evenings 😂) but here's the rough version.

If you can buy electricity from an EV charging point for 35p/kWh, then run your house by V2L, and ignoring losses, if you're using less than 5 kWh/day (£1.75) then you'll be better off compared to paying 25p/kWh and 50p/day.

But then if you've got an EV you could have an EV tariff and buy from the grid at 10p/kWh with a 50p/day SC, you can get your 5kWh/day for £1 a day so you're now better off paying the SC.

Scot_39

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

And also a bucket for WHD so that those who receive it will see that they are also contributing from their £150 pounds too, I shouldn’t think many who receive it realise it’s not what it seems.

No, they are not contributing from their £150 WHD,

They have already contributed by paying their bills.

Those eligible for WHD receive £150 that those not eligible for WHD do not.

It is exactly what it seems!

Its a discount on the top line that includes the cost of providing the benefit.

Everyone knows its a £150 reduction - the problem is the top line - which includes the cost of the benefit.

And all the other costs the govt keeps adding.

Av cap up £35 - wholesale cost in that cap down £15 ex vat and margins.  So £51+ in extras elesewhere.

So its not a net £150 benefit.

Its classic govt smoke and mirrors - give with one hand - and take (policy costs) take (net zero costs) take (other costs) with the others.

The UK official inflation target is 2% per annum.

The ave DF cap went up 2% - the profile class 2 cap went up 3% yesterday  - in just one quarter - there's already another nuclear cost to be fed in for new funding model (maybe of similar order to WHD £17).

So in the Oct Ofgem split - lets see where the rises are coming form - well the  

The network costs went up 6% - including net zero

The policy costs went up 9% - including WHD

Levelisation on DD DF - up 19% (only up c£2).

If it wasn't for wholesale dropping 2% - our bills - including those on WHD - would be higher still. 

You woud think this govt and Ofgem - didnt realise the official inflation target in the UK is 2% - per annum ( and not 2% / 3% per quarter).

Wholesale cost lines have risen c£200 since pre crisis in late 21/early 22 - the cap itself - £478.

£150 doesnt come close to covering the difference

wrf12345

The reality still remains that the network costs can be added to the unit cost so that the more you use the more you pay (especially given that the Grid has to be upgraded to meet the accumulated needs of high users not low users) and the only way to get enough mass of people on a zero s/c tariff is to have it as the default tariff. Everything else is noise.

GingerTim

wrf12345 said:

The reality still remains that the network costs can be added to the unit cost so that the more you use the more you pay (especially given that the Grid has to be upgraded to meet the accumulated needs of high users not low users) 

A connection to the grid is a connection to the grid, no matter how much you use.