Pension, Final Salary - My Brain Hurts!

bombproof

LHW99 said:

peejaydj said:

LHW99 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

As to how OP should have known, were they not getting annual statements showing what was payable at 60.

If it's any consolation there is a similar lack of knowledge in the Civil Service where people work full time beyond 60 where they could have taken partial retirement at 60, worked 3 days a week fotlr the same take home income (pay and pension). 

On the whole (historically at least) the TPS have never sent annual statements for the DB scheme. The initial booklet let you know the accrual rate of 1/80, and apart from a statement of benefits if deferred (and at that time-point), you couldn't learn any more until just before claiming the pension.

It is really only relatively recently that any sort of calculators have been available.

Thankyou LHW99   so therefore ... If I didnt claim, I wouldn`t know"  ??  pure catch 22!

Quite possibly, if you didn't understand the booklet, as is very likely as it used to be written at least.

OH & I had a couple of paid for meetings with an IFA as we were approaching 60, and this was something (usefully) he mentioned in passing. As I had left the service by then though, I couldn't pass that on to any work colleagues.

Booklet?, what booklet?

DRS1

peejaydj said:

Vitor said:

- Yeh thanks hugheskevi.... 'take it or lose it' ... how should I have found that out that it existed? -

In the Teachers’ Pension Scheme it’s worth being clear on two points:

• If you don’t draw your final salary pension at age 60, you don’t get arrears later. But the pension isn’t “lost” either, it’s still linked to your eventual pensionable salary and, if taken after NPA, normally attracts a late-retirement uplift.

Hi Vitor,  so you are saying?     1.  Overall I dont lose any money  at all in the long run? ie.  in spite of the £9k p/a not drawn?  and   2.  it is simply added on at the point when I do take my final pension which will be higher as a result ?   and 3. then on top of that I get the late-retirement uplift for working those extra few years past 60?

I think you may be clutching at straws.  Read @hugheskevi's and @d6fs1l posts instead.

As a matter of interest what do you now plan to do?  Whatever it is get on with it.

bombproof

Isthisforreal99 said:

peejaydj said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

As to how OP should have known, were they not getting annual statements showing what was payable at 60.

If it's any consolation there is a similar lack of knowledge in the Civil Service where people work full time beyond 60 where they could have taken partial retirement at 60, worked 3 days a week fotlr the same take home income (pay and pension). 

Thank you... " similar lack of knowledge"     ..... whhat can we do?

Educate yourself. I'm 53 but know exactly how much I'll be entitled to and when. Blaming others won't help. 

Too many people take no interest in their pension. The information is out there.

Thankyou for your kind and helpful contribution. I do feel much better for it. I vow henceforth to cease assuming that Capita and their management of TP has been utterly and scandalously crap, (like the vast majority of teachers are fearfully realising this summer). I now realise that my school (to whom I have given my life-blood) and my Union  (who I pay monthly) also have absolutely zero responsibility whatsoever to  care about my well-being and provide basic pensions advice to me. I will henceforth accept sole blame.  Warm regards.

bombproof

d6fs1l said:

I remember reading one of Paul Johnson's columns in the Times earlier this year where he mentioned this issue. The text is reproduced on the IFS site: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/heres-pension-tweak-nudging-civil-servants-work-past-60

Interestingly, he says that while there is no actuarial enhancement of the NPA60 benefits for late retirement in the TPS (which I am sure is correct), you do get them paid as arrears when you start drawing your benefits. 

The TPS's own material suggests (p. 14) that this is correct if you are not in pensionable employment when you reach the NPA:

https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/-/media/documents/member/guides/planning-retirement/retirement-planning-guide.ashx?rev=8501f05bb3a541b597d63489fd998840&hash=AD4F6B7E02C62976E794F2D10CB70E1E#:~:text=Types of retirement If you're not in,benefits are payable from your 75th birthday.

This leaves the question of whether you receive arrears if you are in pensionable employment when you reach the NPA. The detailed example in 

https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/search/-/media/463f33f11072444a90a11d5bad550bb7.ashx

(example A, page 7) does not mention it.

Thankyou so much. will have a good look later.... Yes, even Paul Johnson says the rules are "staggeringly complex and confusing"   

LHW99

peejaydj said:

LHW99 said:

peejaydj said:

LHW99 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

As to how OP should have known, were they not getting annual statements showing what was payable at 60.

If it's any consolation there is a similar lack of knowledge in the Civil Service where people work full time beyond 60 where they could have taken partial retirement at 60, worked 3 days a week fotlr the same take home income (pay and pension). 

On the whole (historically at least) the TPS have never sent annual statements for the DB scheme. The initial booklet let you know the accrual rate of 1/80, and apart from a statement of benefits if deferred (and at that time-point), you couldn't learn any more until just before claiming the pension.

It is really only relatively recently that any sort of calculators have been available.

Thankyou LHW99   so therefore ... If I didnt claim, I wouldn`t know"  ??  pure catch 22!

Quite possibly, if you didn't understand the booklet, as is very likely as it used to be written at least.

OH & I had a couple of paid for meetings with an IFA as we were approaching 60, and this was something (usefully) he mentioned in passing. As I had left the service by then though, I couldn't pass that on to any work colleagues.

Booklet?, what booklet?

AFAIR it was orange / white and I got it with my first teaching post - and never thereafter!

Impenetrable text of course, as it was well before the "Plain English" campaign

bombproof

DRS1 said:

peejaydj said:

Vitor said:

- Yeh thanks hugheskevi.... 'take it or lose it' ... how should I have found that out that it existed? -

In the Teachers’ Pension Scheme it’s worth being clear on two points:

• If you don’t draw your final salary pension at age 60, you don’t get arrears later. But the pension isn’t “lost” either, it’s still linked to your eventual pensionable salary and, if taken after NPA, normally attracts a late-retirement uplift.

Hi Vitor,  so you are saying?     1.  Overall I dont lose any money  at all in the long run? ie.  in spite of the £9k p/a not drawn?  and   2.  it is simply added on at the point when I do take my final pension which will be higher as a result ?   and 3. then on top of that I get the late-retirement uplift for working those extra few years past 60?

I think you may be clutching at straws.  Read @hugheskevi's and @d6fs1l posts instead.

As a matter of interest what do you now plan to do?  Whatever it is get on with it.

 yeh maybe clutching at straws but i am like a dog with a bone........Found out all about this farrago last Friday.     What I am doing?:  1.  today:  Monday I have gotten an end of contract date from my school  as instructed by the phone operative  who said you had to stop the contract for one day and input it into the TP retirement form. Which I just attempted to do and then it started asking me for my retirement date. and got stuck yet again.. I am not retiring! Once again utterly utterly confused..  2. I intend to phone TP once again and ask them to literally walk me through filling their form in step by step to get final salary pay 3. I am meeting with a Financial advisor on Friday. There are loads of us on TP FB page. 

DRS1

That's good.

I'd have been inclined to put retirement date as end of contract date but I assume it could be when you turn 67 (or even when you turned 60).  Maybe someone on Facebook could make themselves useful and say what date to give for retirement date?  Presumably the form doesn't have any useful notes to help you complete it?

bombproof

Thanks DRS1 ( I got TP woman to guide me today!)
 a quick post update. I am now Bombproof btw 
I met a really good Financial advisor this a.m. (V. helpful gent) and he  was all over the TP website looking at all the Docs and He too couldn`t figure out what the hell was going on either! (He said my finances are OK overall, which was good to hear)
Show me the paragraph  on TP site where it says clearly `do this at 60 or lose money`... Or at least `you can choose to do this`?? no one can find it.

Perplexed, he phoned TP and spoke to them directly and they too said it was up to us individually at 60 to enquire about something we did not know existed too via crystal ball. And was told yes, this money was lost  forever through not claiming it
( Utterly contradicted by my later phone call to TP woman who said I WOULD be given arrears back for the last 3 years ... )   its like ping pong!   It is NOT just me! (cue: manic laughter...)

My guy understood `why` TPS and the Govt (who pay)  wish to maintain a cloud of `mystery` about this  potential pay-out ...........as do not want us all cashing in...... so  hence do not broadcast/advertise this widely (at all?)  And that it is obviously spread  only by word of mouth. 

He also suggested that TP should have this with flashing lights on their site for all who are turning 60 and it is remiss of them not to.
He was also in agreement  with me that my Union NEU should have had it in flashing lights or sent us a `heads up` at 60 !!!!!!! they are meant to look after members as a duty of care surely? (I am fuming with them and their `oooh its not our role to advise` their attitude has been snotty and defensive too...  NEU have lost a life-time member now I am changing Union)
AND furthermore  he also agreed that my School itself should have given me a heads up at 60 (in spite of having a revolving door of HR and finance managers)   
He said all of this BEFORE I said I came to exactly  the same conclusions... Which is precisely what I have been complaining about .. Good to know I am not alone. 
Finally Spoke to woman on TP phone this afternoon and got her to walk me through filling in the form step by step (to be fair she was great)   
Thank heavens life has dealt me with MUCH heavier sh*t in my life than this, still have my sense of humour and that I have learned to be a Stoic about loss.  `LOSS IS NOUGHT BUT CHANGE AND CHANGE IS NATURES DELIGHT`... Marcus Aurelius
So hoping for clarity v. soon and  getting on with my life...will report back!
And thankyou once again!

DRS1

Sounds like good progress.

Before getting too down on the union the school HR and whoever maybe ask around your colleagues and see who is in the same boat as you.  You may find no-one else has this issue (which may explain why it has passed the union etc by) but anyone who does and does not know about it will be grateful for the heads up

hyubh

bombproof said:

I met a really good Financial advisor this a.m. (V. helpful gent) and he  was all over the TP website looking at all the Docs and He too couldn`t figure out what the hell was going on either! (He said my finances are OK overall, which was good to hear)
Show me the paragraph  on TP site where it says clearly `do this at 60 or lose money`... Or at least `you can choose to do this`?? no one can find it.

Perplexed, he phoned TP and spoke to them directly and they too said it was up to us individually at 60 to enquire about something we did not know existed too via crystal ball. And was told yes, this money was lost  forever through not claiming it
( Utterly contradicted by my later phone call to TP woman who said I WOULD be given arrears back for the last 3 years ... )   its like ping pong!   It is NOT just me! (cue: manic laughter...)

My guy understood `why` TPS and the Govt (who pay)  wish to maintain a cloud of `mystery` about this  potential pay-out ...........as do not want us all cashing in...... so  hence do not broadcast/advertise this widely (at all?)  And that it is obviously spread  only by word of mouth. 

He also suggested that TP should have this with flashing lights on their site for all who are turning 60 and it is remiss of them not to.
He was also in agreement  with me that my Union NEU should have had it in flashing lights or sent us a `heads up` at 60 !!!!!!! they are meant to look after members as a duty of care surely? (I am fuming with them and their `oooh its not our role to advise` their attitude has been snotty and defensive too...  NEU have lost a life-time member now I am changing Union)
AND furthermore  he also agreed that my School itself should have given me a heads up at 60 (in spite of having a revolving door of HR and finance managers)   
He said all of this BEFORE I said I came to exactly  the same conclusions... Which is precisely what I have been complaining about .. Good to know I am not alone. 
Finally Spoke to woman on TP phone this afternoon and got her to walk me through filling in the form step by step (to be fair she was great)

Your 'really good Financial advisor' sounds remarkably like ChatGPT. Doesn't actually know the answer to the question you asked, but obscures the fact with several layers of obsequiousness