Private Road, Abandoned Car, SORN and ownership query

Herzlos

Titus_Wadd said:

user1977 said:

Why don't the owners of the private road sort it out themselves?

That's a sound question, but they won't deal with it and it isn't causing us enough blockage to our access, although we might discuss civil action via legal protection again if all else fails.

Is it causing enough of a blockage to access that it'd cause problems for a fire engine? Because if so, it may be worth contacting the fire department and see if they can do something about the obstruction. 

paul_c123

Herzlos said:

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Titus_Wadd said:

We did accept the Council Tax/Estate Rent Charge overlap, but I had no idea that the set of council services or police powers would be unavailable to us in these circumstances.  It's difficult to appreciate how a couple of metres away, on the same private road's main drag, the road traffic acts etc would apply.

The Road Traffic Act applies everywhere. That is what you are looking at in deciding this car is present illegally on a public right of way.

It is just that it is not reasonable or realistic - especially after the last decade and a half of Westminster gutting of local authority funding - to expect the local authority to be responsible for clearing up private land.

Your beef here is not with the public authorities, but with the company you pay to manage the private land.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/regulation/2/made

"...........the keeper of a vehicle....... does not ......... intend to use or keep the vehicle on a public road "

Nothing to do with the Road Traffic Act.

"public road" here means a road accessible to the public, not one paid for by the council?

You couldn't leave a SORN car in an Asda carpark as it's deemed a public road, so it sounds like this would apply. 

Does it? Are you asking or telling us? If you follow the link, its actually a link straight into the interpretations section, and they don't define public road there. There's many ways of defining a public road. My driveway isn't public, but its accessible to the public because I don't have a gate. Its fairly obvious where the "public" road ends and my non-public driveway starts. 

Is it obvious in the case of the OP? 

paul_c123

Titus_Wadd said:

the roads are private

This is what the OP said.

Mildly_Miffed

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Titus_Wadd said:

We did accept the Council Tax/Estate Rent Charge overlap, but I had no idea that the set of council services or police powers would be unavailable to us in these circumstances.  It's difficult to appreciate how a couple of metres away, on the same private road's main drag, the road traffic acts etc would apply.

The Road Traffic Act applies everywhere. That is what you are looking at in deciding this car is present illegally on a public right of way.

It is just that it is not reasonable or realistic - especially after the last decade and a half of Westminster gutting of local authority funding - to expect the local authority to be responsible for clearing up private land.

Your beef here is not with the public authorities, but with the company you pay to manage the private land.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/regulation/2/made

"...........the keeper of a vehicle....... does not ......... intend to use or keep the vehicle on a public road "

Nothing to do with the Road Traffic Act.

The keeper's penalty for breaching SORN is not the issue here.

Baldytyke88

user1977 said:

What in practice do scrappies need in order to be persuaded to take away an abandoned car on a private road?

You could put an anonymous post on a Facebook local group asking a scapper to come and get it, only the admin know who is posting; or just visit a scrap yard and offer them £50 cash to come and collect it.

caprikid1

Personally I think I would apply for log book from the DVLA and try and force his hand.

He either has to own up to it or then call a scrappy up to come and collect it.

If he is the sort of neighbour you imply then I suspect he will either attempt to sue or just replace the vehicle shortly after.

If he is on the DVLA as the registered keeper then he will get notified of the request.

born_again

paul_c123 said:

Titus_Wadd said:

the roads are private

This is what the OP said.

So are no member of the public allowed on the road?

Is it just a case that the council have not adopted the road, which does not make it a private road. Only that a 3rd party is liable to maintain it.

paul_c123

Mildly_Miffed said:

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Titus_Wadd said:

We did accept the Council Tax/Estate Rent Charge overlap, but I had no idea that the set of council services or police powers would be unavailable to us in these circumstances.  It's difficult to appreciate how a couple of metres away, on the same private road's main drag, the road traffic acts etc would apply.

The Road Traffic Act applies everywhere. That is what you are looking at in deciding this car is present illegally on a public right of way.

It is just that it is not reasonable or realistic - especially after the last decade and a half of Westminster gutting of local authority funding - to expect the local authority to be responsible for clearing up private land.

Your beef here is not with the public authorities, but with the company you pay to manage the private land.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/regulation/2/made

"...........the keeper of a vehicle....... does not ......... intend to use or keep the vehicle on a public road "

Nothing to do with the Road Traffic Act.

The keeper's penalty for breaching SORN is not the issue here.

It is literally the topic of the thread. 

Aretnap

I haven't read the whole thread, but you can ignore everybody talking about the Road Traffic Act and public access.

Tax and SORN have nothing to do with the RTA. They come under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act, and for the purposes of that act, "public road" is defined as a road repairable at the public expense. Nothing to do with who can access or use it.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/62

So there's no offence committed by keeping a SORNed/untaxed vehicle on an unadopted road, whether or not members of the public do use it.

The other potentially relevant law is this one, which imposes a duty on councils to remove abandoned vehicles from any land open to the air, not just public roads.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/3/crossheading/abandoned-vehicles-and-other-refuse

Though it does give then quite a bit of discretion in deciding whether a vehicle is actually abandoned or not, so forcing them to actually remove it might be easier said than done.

Mildly_Miffed

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

The keeper's penalty for breaching SORN is not the issue here.

It is literally the topic of the thread. 

It's one of the words in the topic, yes, but not the primary factor in the illegality of the vehicle being sat there.

Nor is it remotely relevant to the underlying motivation to post - how to get it moved...