John Lewis return of bedding

Okell

amandaleeds said:

So it's interesting that the Secret Linen store, Soak and Sleep, Piglet in Bed, and Dunelm all state they refund bedding if unused and in the packaging. 

But sadly I don't have a voucher for those places and I like the designs of a few in JL. 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood(?) but as has been explained there isn't necessarily anything JL can do to stop you returning bedding under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, so long as you make it clear to them that you are cancelling a distance contract under those regs.

The "hygiene" exception to the statutory right to cancel a distance sale only applies to goods that (1) have been sealed for the purposes of hygiene or health, AND (2) where the seal has been broken.  JL can't just unilaterally decide to extend that exception to cover all bedding.

So if - as has been suggested here - the goods aren't sealed and are simply attached to some card, you can still exercise your statutory right to cancel a distance contract within 14 days and JL can't stop you doing that.

And even if the goods are sealed, so long as that seal remains unbroken, they can't prevent you from cancelling and returning the goods.

The only thing you need to check in JL's T&Cs is whether you are responsible for return costs when exercising your statutory right to cancel a distance contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

Okell

amandaleeds said:

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

No idea on the legal aspect, but yes, that’s the policy. They view bedding the same as they do knickers. I’ve not seen any complaints really around online purchases, but have dealt with complaints surrounding not being able to return bedding purchased in store. Irrelevant to this discussion though. 

OP can certainly cancel under their statutory rights. But will need to return the items at their own expense. 

Any bedding I’ve purchased from JL has came in sealed packaging, but a comment further up says no. It’s been a couple of years since I purchased a duvet, but ordered some pillows recently which were vacuum packed in plastic. 

But you can try knickers and swimwear on in shops without buying them and they are just assuming you'll try them on over your own underwear, yet they won't let you look at bedding like you might a pair of curtains 🤣

Underwear is an interesting example re distance contracts.

M&S - like most online retailers - claim that you can't return underwear, but unless it's "sealed" and the seal becomes broken you can still cancel under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

M&S underwear (men's that is) is only folded around a bit of card and can be cancelled and returned under the regs.

sheramber

GDB2222 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

Just to clarify, JL do allow returns of unopened items. Things like duvet covers come in transparent packaging, so the OP can see the pattern and return it if she doesn't like the look of it. 

As I understand it the co OO wants to make sure the diver is. It too hot for her. 

How she  does that without trying it  I don’t know. 

eskbanker

sheramber said:
As I understand it the co OO wants to make sure the diver is. It too hot for her.

Might be worth reviewing your autocorrect settings or at least spending a bit more time proofreading what your device has produced?

sheramber

eskbanker said:

sheramber said:
As I understand it the co OO wants to make sure the diver is. It too hot for her.

Might be worth reviewing your autocorrect settings or at least spending a bit more time proofreading what your device has produced?

Unfortunately my auto  correct changes words after I submit.
 The changes are not shown beforehand.

Very annoying .

I am not always able to edit on my phone . Instead of edit I get ‘mute’. 

Okell

AIUI the OP is happy just to examine the bedding without unsealing it - assuming it is even sealed in the first place...

amandaleeds said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

Yes I was assuming I could return if I hadn't opened it as they are usually sealed in see through packs...

GDB2222

Yes, JL bedding is sealed. And, JL do allow returns if the seal is unbroken.  

If the op can make it into a store, JL have samples of duvets to handle. There are also reviews on their website, so the op can get a pretty good idea of what is going to work for her. If a 4 tog duvet is too hot, then maybe she needs a 2.5 tog one? 

PHK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

It's worthwhile pointing out that the EU case law is from 2019 which is after the UK left the EU. 

The national governments of France, Germany etc adapted their law/regulations accordingly. 

A UK court might take the principle of the EU case into account but I think it's more likely they would use the "could you do it in a shop" test. i.e. you could definitely lie on a mattress in a shop and you definitely couldn't try on underwear. Would they think you could get under a duvet in a shop? It would be interesting to see. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

PHK said:

It's worthwhile pointing out that the EU case law is from 2019 which is after the UK left the EU. 

Didn't we leave the EU on the 31st of Jan 2020? 

amandaleeds

Okell said:

amandaleeds said:

So it's interesting that the Secret Linen store, Soak and Sleep, Piglet in Bed, and Dunelm all state they refund bedding if unused and in the packaging. 

But sadly I don't have a voucher for those places and I like the designs of a few in JL. 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood(?) but as has been explained there isn't necessarily anything JL can do to stop you returning bedding under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, so long as you make it clear to them that you are cancelling a distance contract under those regs.

The "hygiene" exception to the statutory right to cancel a distance sale only applies to goods that (1) have been sealed for the purposes of hygiene or health, AND (2) where the seal has been broken.  JL can't just unilaterally decide to extend that exception to cover all bedding.

So if - as has been suggested here - the goods aren't sealed and are simply attached to some card, you can still exercise your statutory right to cancel a distance contract within 14 days and JL can't stop you doing that.

And even if the goods are sealed, so long as that seal remains unbroken, they can't prevent you from cancelling and returning the goods.

The only thing you need to check in JL's T&Cs is whether you are responsible for return costs when exercising your statutory right to cancel a distance contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

So I went back to them referring to some of this and they now seem to be saying I can return duvet covers provided they have not been opened. Still handy to see the quality of the material, but this is definitely more reasonable than what they originally said. Other retailers seem to be a bit more relaxed, stating returns just need to be unused and in original packaging.

But at least I know I can order it without being lumbered with a huge expense if the designs aren't suitable 😊

Thank-you so much for your help!