John Lewis return of bedding

amandaleeds

I have a John Lewis voucher and need a new duvet cover and duvet. A recent expensive 4 tog duvet I spent a lot of money on is too hot even in cool weather, sweaty, noisy and heavy, so I want to be able to look at a duvet before committing to keep it.

With the bedding, there are a few sets I like and I want to see what the pattern looks like against the colourscheme of my bedroom and see what the quality of the material is like.

I was about to place an order for £400 when I read in the small print they won't accept returns of bedding for hygiene reasons.

I've contacted them to check this, ad it's not a policy I've seen in other shops, and I have no other way of looking at the products (temporarily unable to walk due to broken ankle and nearest JL is 90 miles away).

It sounds like even if I ordered them to store and got someone to look at them and give their opinion, I wouldn't then be able to return the ones I didn't want. 

I thought distance selling regulations meant you could return items?

Mark_d

There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel.

These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken.

libra10

We recently purchased some bedding at Dunelm, and were advised that no returns would be accepted.

sheramber

amandaleeds said:

I have a John Lewis voucher and need a new duvet cover and duvet. A recent expensive 4 tog duvet I spent a lot of money on is too hot even in cool weather, sweaty, noisy and heavy, so I want to be able to look at a duvet before committing to keep it.

With the bedding, there are a few sets I like and I want to see what the pattern looks like against the colourscheme of my bedroom and see what the quality of the material is like.

I was about to place an order for £400 when I read in the small print they won't accept returns of bedding for hygiene reasons.

I've contacted them to check this, ad it's not a policy I've seen in other shops, and I have no other way of looking at the products (temporarily unable to walk due to broken ankle and nearest JL is 90 miles away).

It sounds like even if I ordered them to store and got someone to look at them and give their opinion, I wouldn't then be able to return the ones I didn't want. 

I thought distance selling regulations meant you could return items?

it's not a policy I've seen in other shops

Dunhelm state

addition, unless faulty, damaged, missing or otherwise not in accordance with specification, for health and hygiene reasons we are unable to offer refunds or exchanges on the following items unless they are returned unused and in their original packaging and, if the item has a hygiene or security seal, with that seal intact:

• Mattress toppers

• Mattress and bedding protectors

• Duvets and duvet covers

• Pillows and pillowcases

• Throws & Blankets

• Mattresses

• Bedsheets

• Toilet seats

M&S state

Items with hygiene seals must be returned with the seals intact (swimwear, underwear, duvets, etc)

Aylesbury_Duck

Can it wait until your ankle has healed and you can shop more locally?

While frustrating, the other side of the argument is that if you spent £400 on bedding would you be happy with the possibility that someone else had purchased, unpacked, laid on/in it and decided they didn't want it, before you bought it?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

amandaleeds

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

Yes I was assuming I could return if I hadn't opened it as they are usually sealed in see through packs.

Sadly I live in a town where there's not much in the way of choice of bedding and I have a £250 John Lewis voucher.

There's no guarantee the store 90 miles away would have the styles I'm interested in, and my understanding is that I can't even order to store to view as I've then "purchased' them so can't get a refund?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

amandaleeds said:

Yes I was assuming I could return if I hadn't opened it as they are usually sealed in see through packs.

Sadly I live in a town where there's not much in the way of choice of bedding and I have a £250 John Lewis voucher.

There's no guarantee the store 90 miles away would have the styles I'm interested in, and my understanding is that I can't even order to store to view as I've then "purchased' them so can't get a refund?

Yeah it's crazy OP because you could buy a t-shirt returned by somebody who hasn't had a shower for month but open a packet of bedding to feel the material and some claim it's unhygienic to be resold.

Only guidance we really have is here (my bolding):

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021XC1229(04)&qid=1640961745514

For an item to be exempt from the right of withdrawal under point (e), there should be genuine health protection or hygiene reasons for using a seal, which may consist of protective wrapping or film. This exception could apply, for example, to the following goods if unsealed by the consumer after delivery:
Cosmetic products such as lipsticks;Toothbrushes, shavers and similar personal hygiene items.
The Court ruled in case C-681/17 slewo that this exception does not apply to mattresses. The Court in particular stated that it is the nature of the goods which may justify their packaging being sealed for health protection or hygiene reasons and that, accordingly, the unsealing of the packaging deprives the goods inside of the guarantee in terms of health protection or hygiene (141).
Accordingly, the exception to the right of withdrawal under point (e) of the first paragraph of Article 16 applies only if, after the packaging has been unsealed, the goods contained therein are definitively no longer in a saleable condition due to genuine health protection or hygiene reasons, because the very nature of the goods makes it impossible or excessively difficult, for the trader to take the necessary measures allowing for resale without affecting either of those requirements (142).

I really do not think bedding falls anywhere near this at all but obviously no one wants to go into a purchase expecting a battle if they change their mind, OP wait and see if the poster I tagged has any input, their insight might help more than knowing your rights  

As an aside their policy on the right to cancel under the regulations state:

Your right to return or cancel products does not apply to goods that are made to measure or are made to your specification, that have been clearly personalised or which by reason of their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly. This doesn't affect your statutory rights if goods are faulty or not as described.


Which is very poorly written as they've actually missed out the hygiene exception!

Okell

amandaleeds said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Bedding is unlikely to be viewed as exempt from the regulations due to EU case law stemming from "the mattress case" but most companies run with the idea that it is exempt in the hope they are right.

Worth a note the limit is a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery

If it isn't sealed or it is but you don't open it then it 100% isn't exempt and you may cancel and return without question.

If you open it I would say it still isn't exempt for the reason above but it is a complex area to debate with customer services so would require some legwork escalating further up the chain if you needed to return. 

Also this is right to cancel within 14 days, JL own return policy that is in addition to your rights can exclude such items if they wish. 

@screech_78 for a possible opinion  

Yes I was assuming I could return if I hadn't opened it as they are usually sealed in see through packs.

Sadly I live in a town where there's not much in the way of choice of bedding and I have a £250 John Lewis voucher.

There's no guarantee the store 90 miles away would have the styles I'm interested in, and my understanding is that I can't even order to store to view as I've then "purchased' them so can't get a refund?

I think that what the lunatic is saying is that JL can't simply say that your right to cancel a distance contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 doesn't apply to bedding for "hygiene" reasons.*

First, it's doubtful whether the "hygiene" exception to the right to cancel can be properly applied to bedding, and second, even if it did apply, it can only come into operation if the goods have been sealed for hygiene purposes, and you have unsealed them.  See para 28(3)(a) of the above regulations.

So if you can examine the bedding without opening the packaging, you should still be able to exercise your legal right to cancel a distance contract under the above regulations.

But I'm not a lawyer giving legal advice, so see what others say first...



*In respect of their own JL returns policy, they can impose what restrictions they like on returns, but they can't restrict your legal right to cancel under the above linked-to regulations.  If you go ahead and need to retrun the bedding, make sure they understand that you are exercising your statutory right under the regulations, and not using their own returns policy

Grumpy_chap

amandaleeds said:

I have a John Lewis voucher and need a new duvet cover and duvet. A recent expensive 4 tog duvet I spent a lot of money on is too hot even in cool weather, sweaty, noisy and heavy, so I want to be able to look at a duvet before committing to keep it.

With the bedding, there are a few sets I like and I want to see what the pattern looks like against the colourscheme of my bedroom and see what the quality of the material is like.

I was about to place an order for £400 

I can't comment about the voucher and refunds etc., but we purchased our new duvet from JL last winter and chose a 13.5 tog duvet that was 4.5 tog part and 9 tog part which can be used separately or together (with very good clips that actually work).  We chose the duck down one and it was expensive, but when we were in the store they had a "job lot" (I can't recall what branding JL gave that) and the duvet was far cheaper than the standard JL duvet which was to all intents and purposes identical.  We have been very pleased with our purchase.

Another comment, though, given this is a money-saving site, is there was a programme on Channel 5 during the week where they tested some supermarket duvets against a more premium brand and the supermarket offering came out best.  You may wish to explore on catch up TV.

J63320

Most JL duvet covers don’t come in plastic packaging now - they just have a cardboard sleeve around them. So it’s impossible to return them in the sealed packaging because there is no sealed packaging.