Minster Baywatch - Lancaster

lancred

Hi all, hoping for some further advice.

Keeper received NTK from PPC Minster Baywatch. There is a ticket albeit the reg has been keyed incorrectly. Parking timeframe was kept within the period and vehicle exited car park with over one hour remaining before ticket time end.

PPC NTK states that the specific offence has nothing to do with incorrect keyed in reg and pointed to incorrect parking fee not being paid in full.

Appealed as keeper and included ticket. PPC have rejected appeal basically re-reviewing and then identifying a mis-keyed reg.

I have a POPLA code and was going to appeal on signage which is covered by foliage at the entrance and 'bleached' out signs. Also the landowner (Hay Carr Estates Ltd) seems to be different from Minster Baywatch as per last image where the ticket machine is.

Am I going down the correct route here? 

Gr1pr

How bad was the keying error   ?  One character or two , or more  ?

Were the signs all Minster Baywatch or Bransby Wilson,  or a mixture of both   ?

Hay Carr are the landlord or landowner,  but Minster Baywatch are the sub contractor monitoring the use of the private car park

Coupon-mad

lancred said:

Hi all, hoping for some further advice.

That's great photo evidence.

The contract is offered by Hay Carr Estates on that blue sign that lists the tariffs.

No contract is offered by MB. The mustard coloured sign is unreadable and the entrance sign covered up by foliage.

Add the metadata to your photos or POPLA might not accept them.

lancred

Gr1pr said:

How bad was the keying error   ?  One character or two , or more  ?

Were the signs all Minster Baywatch or Bransby Wilson,  or a mixture of both   ?

Hay Carr are the landlord or landowner,  but Minster Baywatch are the sub contractor monitoring the use of the private car park

Missing the first four digits. The signs i've just grabbed from google maps as im not in the area, but think they are somewhat out of date. 

lancred

Coupon-mad said:

lancred said:

Hi all, hoping for some further advice.

That's great photo evidence.

The contract is offered by Hay Carr Estates on that blue sign that lists the tariffs.

No contract is offered by MB. The mustard coloured sign is unreadable and the entrance sign covered up by foliage.

Add the metadata to your photos or POPLA might not accept them.

Thanks for reply. The photos have been grabbed via google maps so may be somewhat out of date. im no longer in the area, still worth submitting?

Gr1pr

lancred said:

Gr1pr said:

How bad was the keying error   ?  One character or two , or more  ?

Were the signs all Minster Baywatch or Bransby Wilson,  or a mixture of both   ?

Hay Carr are the landlord or landowner,  but Minster Baywatch are the sub contractor monitoring the use of the private car park

Missing the first four digits.

 The signs i've just grabbed from google maps as im not in the area, but think they are somewhat out of date. 

I doubt that the driver missed out 4 CHARACTERS ( letters and digits  )  and then keyed in the last 3 characters correctly , more likely to be a machine failure,  like others we see including ECP machines 

A typical registration is AB12DEF, so why would anyone key in DEF when there are numerous other vehicles with DEF,  ?  Like JK34DEF etc

Minster Baywatch are offering you the £20 keying error option in the BPA Code of Practice,  they didn't cancel as a goodwill gesture due to full payment 

Frankly,  I wouldn't rely on old signage on GSV to try to prove your case, but poor and inadequate signage plus no landowner authority are always used in any popla appeal  ( their evidence pack will contain pictures and documents etc  )

You can state that the correct and full VRM details were used, that full payment for the duration of the time on site was made on the day and the operator suffered no loss, so you believe that the machine was faulty,  a widely known issue with machines,  so no breach occurred and the pcn should be cancelled 

I am assuming that the driver used the machine itself   ?  Not an app etc  ?

I do not believe that they would win in court,  more likely that they would discontinue beforehand 

Coupon-mad

lancred said:

Coupon-mad said:

lancred said:

Hi all, hoping for some further advice.

That's great photo evidence.

The contract is offered by Hay Carr Estates on that blue sign that lists the tariffs.

No contract is offered by MB. The mustard coloured sign is unreadable and the entrance sign covered up by foliage.

Add the metadata to your photos or POPLA might not accept them.

Thanks for reply. The photos have been grabbed via google maps so may be somewhat out of date. im no longer in the area, still worth submitting?

Yep. Insist the operator proves otherwise! Go to town on how unreadable the signs are & that the offer is not made by this operator.

lancred

Hi all. So submitted the appeal to POPLA. I also added pics of the signage being obscured and the latter point about no breach of contract occurring. Obvs I now have seven days to reply which I need to add some comments. Gonna take a deep breath and see what next I need to do. Slightly worried as they have proved signage from late 2024 and also shown that the machine has accepted other payments around the same time.

Without pasting the whole thing they are claiming its all lazy AI slop and still focusing on the fact that the car entered the car park and overstayed its welcome despite having a ticket albeit wrong details keyed in.

1) The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the PoFA 2012
2) Operator has not shown whom it is actually pursuing
3) The signage was inadequate so there was no valid contract formed
4) Landowner Authority
5) No breach of contract occurred and the operator suffered no loss

Will have a read of next stages but hoping for a few pointers and re-assurance that route is still good to take etc

Gr1pr

The stages after POPLA   ( if you lose at Popla ) are

Definitely Powerless debt collectors letters 

Then possibly ( but not definitely  )

A Letter of Claim   ( probably from a legal company   )

A money claim using MCOL 

lancred

Gr1pr said:

The stages after POPLA   ( if you lose at Popla ) are

Definitely Powerless debt collectors letters 

Then possibly ( but not definitely  )

A Letter of Claim   ( probably from a legal company   )

A money claim using MCOL 

Any pointers of how to respond to the comments made? Appreciate I haven't posted their reply in full. One concern is that the landowner/signage seems different to to signage I appealed with.

Gr1pr

Are you at the POPLA comments stage   ?  ( sounds like it  )