Is it as black & white as going for the first option on the MSE Energy Club?

QrizB

B0bbyEwing said:

I used the existing, higher, rates that I'm currently on, not the new rates, and still got less than their calculations.

Using the current rates:

    3189 x 0.2665 = £849.87
    365 x 0.4789 = £174.80
    Electricity total   £1024.67
    6390 x 0.0631 = £403.21
    365 x 0.2896 = £105.70
    Gas total  £508.91
    Fuel total £1533.58

More expensive than the new tariff.

B0bbyEwing said:

Yet when I put the numbers in to a spreadsheet I get something totally different...

Comparing your numbers with mine, I can see the problem in your calculation. You've used a gas rate of 0.00631 - one too many zeroes.

FrugaiMacDugal

B0bbyEwing said:

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

Those new prices under E and G are with vat added at 5%.

I don't follow. 

Ok, E at 25.38 has no VAT, E at 26.65 has VAT added at 5 %.

QrizB

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

Those new prices under E and G are with vat added at 5%.

I don't follow. 

Ok, E at 25.38 has no VAT, E at 26.65 has VAT added at 5 %.

It doesn't, though. Both sets of prices are inclusive of vAT.

FrugaiMacDugal

QrizB said:

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

Those new prices under E and G are with vat added at 5%.

I don't follow. 

Ok, E at 25.38 has no VAT, E at 26.65 has VAT added at 5 %.

It doesn't, though. Both sets of prices are inclusive of vAT.

Ok,

so  E 25.38 + 5% = 26.65,

and if E 25.38 already includes 5%  VAT that means pre VAT price was E 24.17.

Maybe B0oby using wrong prices in calculations, thats why getting different results.

B0bbyEwing

QrizB said:
Comparing your numbers with mine, I can see the problem in your calculation. You've used a gas rate of 0.00631 - one too many zeroes.

Ahhhh thanks for that! My keyboard has been having an annoying thing for a while now where it'll either double enter a character or not register a character. For the most part I catch them. Typically when doing financial work, I miss it.

Yes, running the numbers now I get £1,484.77 with the NEW tariff, which I think is somewhere else I was going wrong - I think this morning I was thinking the price given was Octopus saying what I'm paying now when obviously it's the new quote.


But running these numbers then (with correct decimals this time) shows me that the price comparison sites must be correct in what they're telling me. 

FrugaiMacDugal said:
Ok, E at 25.38 has no VAT, E at 26.65 has VAT added at 5 %.

25.38? Do you mean 25.75 (new) vs 26.65 (current)?

Either way, I just got the prices (purple attached image) from the Octopus website so they must either both have VAT or both not. They can't quote one price with and one price without & since someone said it's usually with I'll guess that they're with.

Ildhund

B0bbyEwing said:

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

I wrote this yesterday "When prices are quoted to you, they will almost always (by law, I think) include the VAT, currently at 5% for domestic consumers on both unit rates and standing charges. If you look up prices in a supplier's tables, or find the ones on your bills, they are often exclusive of VAT." It should of course be made clear close by whether or not VAT is included in the figures you see. 

The ones you double-checked seem to have come from different sources, one with and one without VAT.

B0bbyEwing

Ildhund said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

I wrote this yesterday "When prices are quoted to you, they will almost always (by law, I think) include the VAT, currently at 5% for domestic consumers on both unit rates and standing charges. If you look up prices in a supplier's tables, or find the ones on your bills, they are often exclusive of VAT." It should of course be made clear close by whether or not VAT is included in the figures you see. 

The ones you double-checked seem to have come from different sources, one with and one without VAT.

Just to explain exactly where I got my sources from (both from the Octopus website btw)...

1) My actual bill.
Login to Octopus website > go to billing > download bill > take price from bill

2) The Octopus website
Login to Octopus website > click my name top right > go to change my tariff 
(this is where the purple screenshot came from yesterday).

So you're saying that on their site they sometimes choose ex. VAT & sometimes choose inc. VAT?

Not saying you're wrong but I would've thought they'd go for one or the other, not mix it up here & there.

FrugaiMacDugal

On most actual bills the VAT is shown separately as 5% of usage and standing charge total.

Have another look at your actual bill.

Eldi_Dos

@B0bbyEwing
You have got to remember the supplier has no control over level of Vat charged, so it makes sense to just concentrate on the unit rate and standing charge.
Say for instance you where to take on a two year fix there is no guarantee that Vat will remain static.

Ildhund

B0bbyEwing said:
So you're saying that on their site they sometimes choose ex. VAT & sometimes choose inc. VAT?

Sadly, yes. It's normal for bills and statements to show prices ex VAT, calculate the total cost ex VAT and then calculate the VAT to be added on. That way, there is a single line showing the actual amount of VAT payable on that particular bill. Your garage probably does the same for those eye-watering bills for car repairs.