Is it as black & white as going for the first option on the MSE Energy Club?

Ildhund

FrugaiMacDugal said:

My own wee spreadsheet for Dummies when comparing switch prices.

One small caveat to those embarking on this sort of calculation: Beware of the VAT! When prices are quoted to you, they will almost always (by law, I think) include the VAT, currently at 5% for domestic consumers on both unit rates and standing charges. If you look up prices in a supplier's tables, or find the ones on your bills, they are often exclusive of VAT. Yes, it's only 5%, but for the typical average household, it amounts to £84 a year. It's worth making sure that you're comparing like with like.

oldtrout

B0bbyEwing said:

Out of interest, those of you who run spreadsheets & can manipulate your exact numbers quickly & easily - what do you put in to it & how often?

Is it just your meter readings? And how often are you actually taking those readings? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? At any rate I assume the same on each measurement (such as always a Monday, always the 1st of the month etc)? 

I use one spreadsheet for comparison purposes.  FrugaiMacDugal's is a more simplified version than the one I use, but works just as well.  You could also add several more lines to their spreadsheet to show several comparisons at the same time.  I do comparisons using the MSE Cheap Energy Club.  I ignore the little known ones, and I focus on the one's with no exit penalty.  Then check the tariff info and enter those figures into the spreadsheet. (As mentioned above, always use the cost including the VAT when doing these comparisons.)

Another spreadsheet I have is a record of meter readings.  Usually recorded once a month when I send in my meter readings.  Octopus produce my bill for the 28th of each month, whether I send my readings in or not.  So that's the date I send my readings, so it's completely up to date.  I have a smart meter for gas, but the one for the electric has never worked, so I send my own readings for both.  Octopus has never made an error in quite a few years, and been very accurate when using an estimated electric reading when I've missed sending them the actual reading.

Sorry, I don't know how to screenshot a pic of my spreadsheet, but basically I have a column for the date, a column for the meter reading, a column for the difference between the previous reading and current (ie usage), a column for the number of days between the readings, and a further column showing the Average usage per day.  Over time, this information makes it easier to see your usage over any particular time.

Hope I've not gone on too much ... 

bob2302

B0bbyEwing said:

WiserMiser said:

Use your own figures derived from real meter readings 12 months apart.  

I don't keep track of my readings so can't accurately go to date X of one year & then the same date the following year. 

The need for precise 12 month usage is exaggerated. Errors have a greater effect on the estimated cost than they do on what you actually end up paying.

For a heating fuel, you really want several years of data anyway.

B0bbyEwing

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

B0bbyEwing

And after crunching those numbers for my current tariff, I get a number different to what Octopus are telling me.

Octopus say yearly estimate
£1,484.38
Using electricity usage: £1,004.28 for 3,189kWh
and gas usage: £480.10 for 6,390kWh
"This is based on the latest industry estimate of your energy use. Regular readings make this more accurate."


Yet when I put the numbers in to a spreadsheet I get something totally different...




Apologies for the layout. I had it laid out better when I was doing it but I've had to shift things so that they fit in an image attachment on the board here.

So for example, I did the Electricity usage 0.2665 * 3189kWh to give me £849.8685. Standing charge 0.4789 * 365 days to give £174.7985.
Same for gas.
Giving a total of £1,170.69.


So 1 of 2 things has happened here. Either
1) I've made a monumental error
2) I haven't made a mistake at all & I've just seen with my own eyes what you guys have been telling me - and that's to crunch numbers based on the kWh & rates and don't accept the total cost they quote.

So before I go any further crunching numbers for other tariffs & possibly doing it all wrong, I think I'll wait on some feedback on this to see whether I'm doing it wrong.

FrugaiMacDugal

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

Those new prices under E and G are with vat added at 5%.

QrizB

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

All the "standard variable tariffs" change quarterly.

It's only the weird ones that change more often.

Octopus Tracker, for example, changes daily. And Agile Octopus changes every 30 minutes.

Time-of-Use tariffs like Economy 7 switch between prices at set times of day, but aren't otherwise any more variable than non-ToU tariffs. So you'll have the same tariff table for three months or more.

B0bbyEwing

FrugaiMacDugal said:

B0bbyEwing said:

How frequent to flexible / variable tariffs change? Is it daily?

Since I'm frequently just way too tired after work to start doing anything that remotely resembles using my head, I've got up early to start doing a comparison.

Just gone to enter in my existing tariff details & was going to use the figures I noted down only a few days ago, no later than when I started this thread, but thought I'd double check anyway ....... and they've changed. 

E
25.38 > 26.65
45.61 > 47.89
G
6.00 > 6.31
27.59 > 28.96

energy
unit
standing.

So does it change frequently then? I know that's the thing with variables ..... they vary. Just wondered how frequent. 

Those new prices under E and G are with vat added at 5%.

I don't follow. 

Take my total of £1,170.69
I do 5% of this & add to it giving £1,229.22

Still much less than what they say I'm scheduled to pay at over £1.4k

Ildhund

The Octopus figures you quote are apparently using the 'New' prices from the purple screenshot, not the 'Current' ones you have used. It's not clear to me what the difference is between the two, but the sums add up within a few pence:

3189 x 0.2575 = £821.17
365 x 0.5020 = £182.23
Electricity total   £1004.40
6390 x 0.0562 = £359.12
365 x 0.3322 = £121.25
Gas total  £480.37
Fuel total £1484.77

I assume that these numbers are within a rounding error of the Octopus ones.

B0bbyEwing

Ildhund said:

The Octopus figures you quote are apparently using the 'New' prices from the purple screenshot, not the 'Current' ones you have used. It's not clear to me what the difference is between the two, but the sums add up within a few pence:

3189 x 0.2575 = £821.17
365 x 0.5020 = £182.23
Electricity total   £1004.40
6390 x 0.0562 = £359.12
365 x 0.3322 = £121.25
Gas total  £480.37
Fuel total £1484.77

I assume that these numbers are within a rounding error of the Octopus ones.

Then that makes even LESS sense to me since the 'new' unit rates are cheaper. The standing rate is more yes but someone mentioned previously that that only makes up a smaller part of your bill, so if the larger part is billed at a cheaper unit rate then overall it should be less.

I used the existing, higher, rates that I'm currently on, not the new rates, and still got less than their calculations.

You say you've made the numbers work though so I'll have to have another sit down tonight after work & see where I went so wrong because I'm currently on my break & not enough time to go through this. Certainly not on a phone.