PayPal danger - PLEASE READ

elsien

I think part of the problem is the original post made it sound like automatic payments were being randomly set up out of the blue when actually it appears to be more that the payments that have been set up when the person has already used the service so there is an existing link, and not realised. 

Jordec

Zanderman said:

booneruk said:

QrizB said:

Jordec said:

I’ve asked the admin to delete.

OP I'm sure your warning was posted in good faith; it's just that the problem doesn't seem to be as widespread as you initially thought.

It would be a shame if this thread is deleted. Other people may be along to report the same problem eventually, we are all wanting to help out here.

There's an existing recent thread here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6626515/quick-paypal-tip-i-discovered-today

No real need for another, especially one that is rather overly alarmist. 

Sure there's arguably a need for this to be highlighted, but probably best by merging the two threads appropriately. 

The original post (cut short due to the unnecessary amount of negative comments) highlighted that one of these unauthorised automatic payments was set up by a fraudster, when we made a purchase for £87.90, that was then used by PayPal to steal £10500 in the space of around 10 minutes. These payments were never authorised, even accidentally. No proof was provided to PayPal and no email was sent to confirm the agreement. The first we knew was to see the withdrawal confirmations. It was only that evening, hours after the original purchase, so no time to check automatic payments. PayPal says the payments were authorised by the merchant, so not admitting any liability.

Chief_of_Staffy

You have to wonder what kind of security Paypal has, given that that pattern of payment could not be anything other than fraudulent. It could not be more obvious. Yet if you're performing perfectly ordinary, expected transactions they'll put a hold on your money for days or weeks to perform 'checks'.

Jordec

A direct copy of the conversation with PayPal Customer Services. They have no proof! I had no email and no one I’ve spoken to, aside from probably on this particular forum, has had any emails to inform them. This relates to my account, (my husband was the one defrauded). I have had no suspicious withdrawals. Below is what Temu provided to set up the account. They have only ever taken what was due from purchases. It is the lack of authorisation for the pre-approval I am concerned with.

Me: What did the merchants provide to prove to you that I had agreed to an ‘automatic payment’? I need evidence that you were given authorisation from me to set this up and withdraw additional money, without my further authorisation. I am legally entitled to anything that the merchants sent to you relating to my account. Are you refusing to provide this and if so, why?

3 Sept 2025 12:11

PayPal: When you activate automatic payments, then you will receive an email on that.

Also we will be able to see few details about your subscription such as:

For Temu, the details we see are:
Start Date:13 Mar 2025, 23:29 PM GMT

Billing ID:B-61D84164WK845581A

This is all we see

booneruk

At the end of the day, a company wanting to use PayPal services to bill customers wouldn't last very long with PayPal if they decided to take fraudulent payments willy-nilly. I don't doubt the above story in any way, but I don't think it's going to be a wide problem, and I still tend to lean towards accident than malice in this case (or perhaps a hack - but even then there would be protections built into the system I presume)

@Jordec did you get all this money refunded in the end?

Chief_of_Staffy

booneruk said:

At the end of the day, a company wanting to use PayPal services to bill customers wouldn't last very long with PayPal if they decided to take fraudulent payments willy-nilly. I don't doubt the above story in any way, but I don't think it's going to be a wide problem, and I still tend to lean towards accident than malice in this case.

@Jordec did you get all this money refunded in the end?

The OP must have fallen for a scam. Likely accessed a cloned site of a genuine business. Incredible that Paypal permitted even the second payment, let alone all the others.

Chief_of_Staffy

There are several recent reviews like this, on Google. Maybe it was a site hack rather than a clone. Either way, 100% a scam.

"Please be aware that despite the best efforts of the store owner online customers are being scammed by someone else with a bogus website whereby you believe that you are purchasing from furniture liquidator in Liverpool however the bogus company force you to pay via PayPal and then attempt to empty your bank account. The owner is genuinely upset that his business name is being used to scam customers. and this is effecting his reputation. He too is a victim with his business identity being cloned. He has an action fraud reference number. I ordered a bin store online paid via PayPal I received email confirmation from a totally different company called APAYAS who have taken £2700 from my bank account they tried to take more. I have reported to PayPal and my bank."

Jordec

PayPal has refused to refund. The bank managed to recall the £3499 as the card ran out so they used an Apple 99p direct debit to get the money. We were not the only ones affected. It will likely be on the news. Look at Germany last week. Same fraud pattern, hence the red bar across the top of the PayPal site at the moment. This was not down to ignorance on our part, it was down to PayPal allowing these types of payments to be set up without approval. The fraudsters spotted it and abused it.

Chief_of_Staffy

I assume the OP is referring to this (it's difficult sometimes to follow their prose)

European banks have seen widespread unauthorised direct debits from PayPal accounts, the German Savings Banks Association (DSGV) says.
The German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) says payments worth in the region of 10 billion euros (£8.6bn) have had to be blocked, after PayPal's fraud-checking system failed.
It said payments were paused on Monday when lenders reported millions of suspicious direct debits from the payment firm.

...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6y42jggdyo

Jordec

Chief_of_Staffy said:

There are several recent reviews like this, on Google. Maybe it was a site hack rather than a clone. Either way, 100% a scam.

"Please be aware that despite the best efforts of the store owner online customers are being scammed by someone else with a bogus website whereby you believe that you are purchasing from furniture liquidator in Liverpool however the bogus company force you to pay via PayPal and then attempt to empty your bank account. The owner is genuinely upset that his business name is being used to scam customers. and this is effecting his reputation. He too is a victim with his business identity being cloned. He has an action fraud reference number. I ordered a bin store online paid via PayPal I received email confirmation from a totally different company called APAYAS who have taken £2700 from my bank account they tried to take more. I have reported to PayPal and my bank."

Can you please send me a link to this post please? I’d like to contact them, as the FCA wants to combine all of the reports.