Winter Fuel Payment if one member opts out.

sheramber

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Silvertabby said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

35har1old said:

kaMelo said:

As I understand it too, it is household income rather than individuals. As such there is no "opting out' available.

If you're a couple the payment is split between you and if you're over £35,000 in household income the WFP will be recovered by adjusting your tax codes.

Both have £35000 
Depending on age starting 
at £100 each

They each need to be careful to avoid getting an extra penny in (taxable) income then!  It would be an astronomical tax rate if they did 😳

Not really - their tax codes would just be reduced to recover the £100 over the tax year.  Unless they opted out before the payments were made. 

True.

What I was trying to get at was lots of people aren't keen on paying 40% tax.

But a £100 tax liability due to 1p of extra income is eye watering.  My maths might be out here but isn't it 10,000% 😳

It is not extra tax.

It is recovering a payment you are not entitled to.

It is only a convenience that HMRC are recovering since they have details of your  taxable income. 

It is the same as recovering child benefit payments from those whose income has exceeded the limit. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

sheramber said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Silvertabby said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

35har1old said:

kaMelo said:

As I understand it too, it is household income rather than individuals. As such there is no "opting out' available.

If you're a couple the payment is split between you and if you're over £35,000 in household income the WFP will be recovered by adjusting your tax codes.

Both have £35000 
Depending on age starting 
at £100 each

They each need to be careful to avoid getting an extra penny in (taxable) income then!  It would be an astronomical tax rate if they did 😳

Not really - their tax codes would just be reduced to recover the £100 over the tax year.  Unless they opted out before the payments were made. 

True.

What I was trying to get at was lots of people aren't keen on paying 40% tax.

But a £100 tax liability due to 1p of extra income is eye watering.  My maths might be out here but isn't it 10,000% 😳

It is not extra tax.

It is recovering a payment you are not entitled to.

It is only a convenience that HMRC are recovering since they have details of your  taxable income. 

It is the same as recovering child benefit payments from those whose income has exceeded the limit. 

I know that and you know that but I think the majority will just see it as extra tax. 

Albeit it is a genuine cliff edge situation, you either pay nothing back or 100%.

sheramber

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

sheramber said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Silvertabby said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

35har1old said:

kaMelo said:

As I understand it too, it is household income rather than individuals. As such there is no "opting out' available.

If you're a couple the payment is split between you and if you're over £35,000 in household income the WFP will be recovered by adjusting your tax codes.

Both have £35000 
Depending on age starting 
at £100 each

They each need to be careful to avoid getting an extra penny in (taxable) income then!  It would be an astronomical tax rate if they did 😳

Not really - their tax codes would just be reduced to recover the £100 over the tax year.  Unless they opted out before the payments were made. 

True.

What I was trying to get at was lots of people aren't keen on paying 40% tax.

But a £100 tax liability due to 1p of extra income is eye watering.  My maths might be out here but isn't it 10,000% 😳

It is not extra tax.

It is recovering a payment you are not entitled to.

It is only a convenience that HMRC are recovering since they have details of your  taxable income. 

It is the same as recovering child benefit payments from those whose income has exceeded the limit. 

I know that and you know that but I think the majority will just see it as extra tax. 

Albeit it is a genuine cliff edge situation, you either pay nothing back or 100%.

Don't encourage them by agreeing it is extra tax.

HMRC staff get enough aggro without adding to it.

molerat

Would have been far simpler to make it taxable income 

Kohkseng

I’m new to the site. Struggling to follow the debate. I have opted out as income above £35k the other householder is over 90 and income below £35k. She has been advised her WFP is £200 rather than £300, is this correct as I’ve opted out? Thanks.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Kohkseng said:

I’m new to the site. Struggling to follow the debate. I have opted out as income above £35k the other householder is over 90 and income below £35k. She has been advised her WFP is £200 rather than £300, is this correct as I’ve opted out? Thanks.

How old are you?

This page may help?

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/how-much-youll-get

sheramber

Kohkseng said:

I’m new to the site. Struggling to follow the debate. I have opted out as income above £35k the other householder is over 90 and income below £35k. She has been advised her WFP is £200 rather than £300, is this correct as I’ve opted out? Thanks.

You are eligible for the payment but have opted out of receiving it rather than get it and pay it back

Yiu could only opt out if you were eligible in the first place. 

Opting out does not mean you are not eligible. You have declined to get payment. 

So, the other party lives with someone who is eligible, i.e. you. 

pinnks

My wife received her WFP award letter today informing her that she'll get £200 (under 80, no other additions etc) as she was born before the cut-off date and "no other person in the household is eligible".

That would be fine, except I am eligible, being a pre-September 1959er, but have opted out. 

I would therefore expect her to receive only £100 as I remain eligible but have opted out of receiving payment (otherwise the policy of means-testing WFP is a farce) and wonder whether this is a one-off, or systemic, error in DWPs procedures... 

If anyone knows the legal basis on which opting out is based, can they point me at it please as she (and I) would receive WFP without a claim under Reg 5 of the relevant regs, so cannot "withdraw a claim" that was neither made, nor necessary...

Dazed_and_C0nfused

pinnks said:

My wife received her WFP award letter today informing her that she'll get £200 (under 80, no other additions etc) as she was born before the cut-off date and "no other person in the household is eligible".

That would be fine, except I am eligible, being a pre-September 1959er, but have opted out. 

I would therefore expect her to receive only £100 as I remain eligible but have opted out of receiving payment (otherwise the policy of means-testing WFP is a farce) and wonder whether this is a one-off, or systemic, error in DWPs procedures... 

If anyone knows the legal basis on which opting out is based, can they point me at it please as she (and I) would receive WFP without a claim under Reg 5 of the relevant regs, so cannot "withdraw a claim" that was neither made, nor necessary...

This is quite a simple guide and, assuming the benefits aspect isn't relevant, it reads to me as though she could expect £100, not £200.

As you say if one persona in a two person household has income above £35k and opting out means the other person, with income no more than £35k, gets the full entitlement it makes all this a bit of a farce!

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/winter-fuel-payment/

pinnks

Thanks.  I know what she should get but the award letter is crystal clear, which raises all sorts of wider questions about the implementation of the policy.  Is this a one-off error or something else?