£100 charge for breaking 15 minute limit at petrol station

Khaggis

James_Poisson said:

They probably get £10 for every successful PCN paid and saying he will get it cancelled avoids confrontation at the time.

Yeah this is my take on it as well. To be honest. I'm Gunna read through that thread now, as I wanted to try and get as many valid arguments for this particular charge in my appeal as possible, as 15 minutes is ridiculous.

Umkomaas

Khaggis said:

James_Poisson said:

They probably get £10 for every successful PCN paid and saying he will get it cancelled avoids confrontation at the time.

Yeah this is my take on it as well. To be honest. I'm Gunna read through that thread now, as I wanted to try and get as many valid arguments for this particular charge in my appeal as possible, as 15 minutes is ridiculous.

Your appeal to ECP will be futile. Every PPC rejects almost every appeal ever made. Save it for POPLA.  By the way, the 28 day wait applies to windscreen tickets only. If you wait that long you'll likely miss the ECP deadline for the initial appeal. Check what their letter says. 

Khaggis

Umkomaas said:

Khaggis said:

James_Poisson said:

They probably get £10 for every successful PCN paid and saying he will get it cancelled avoids confrontation at the time.

Yeah this is my take on it as well. To be honest. I'm Gunna read through that thread now, as I wanted to try and get as many valid arguments for this particular charge in my appeal as possible, as 15 minutes is ridiculous.

Your appeal to ECP will be futile. Every PPC rejects almost every appeal ever made. Save it for POPLA.  By the way, the 28 day wait applies to windscreen tickets only. If you wait that long you'll likely miss the ECP deadline for the initial appeal. Check what their letter says. 

Yeah, I figured this would be the case, but I have had a few cancelled at the appeal stage, just depends how well you get them by the balls. I'm still trying to find that success story on the forum but its a lot to sift through. 

Thanks for the heads up on the 28 days notice, I'll get onto it straight away then.

1505grandad

Not sure if the complaint success is posted in the Successful Complaints thread yet but link to OPs thread (page 5 of the forum atm):-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6610116/2-years-chased-for-fine-now-its-a-letter-of-claim-by-dcb-legal-euro-car-parks/p1

Khaggis

1505grandad said:

Not sure if the complaint success is posted in the Successful Complaints thread yet but link to OPs thread (page 5 of the forum atm):-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6610116/2-years-chased-for-fine-now-its-a-letter-of-claim-by-dcb-legal-euro-car-parks/p1

You're a star! Thank you!

Khaggis

Hi All,

I've drafted this as my appeal, with an optional add-on at the bottom, please let me know whether its adequate and hits all the points. I know it'll likely get rejected anyway, but I have had these cancelled on the appeal stage before so figure I'll give it a shot

To whom it may concern,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper *Redacted* for VRN *Redacted*

The registered keeper cannot be presumed to have been, nor pursued as the driver under some twisted  interpretation of the law of agency.  As the keeper, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver and I shall not be doing so.

I believe this charge is unenforceable and should be cancelled for the following reasons:

 * Inadequate and Obscured Signage: The signage for the parking restrictions at this location is inadequate and fails to meet the standards of clarity required by the British Parking Asociation (BPA) Code of Practice. Upon entering the car park, the sign stating the 15-minute limit is angled away from the road, and on a busy roadway making it particularly difficult to see for a driver turning right into the station. The driver of the vehicle would not be able to safely read the signs terms. This lack of clear and prominent signage means no contract was formed, as the terms were not communicated effectively.

A quick review of the car park on Google Street View will support the claim that the signage is easily missed.

 * Unreasonable and Insufficient Time Limit: The 15-minute time limit is wholly unreasonable for a petrol station that offers additional services beyond a simple fuel transaction. The drivers visit involved not only filling the vehicle with fuel but also the collection of a yodel parcel from inside the station. These activities, combined with the time required to queue and use the facilities, reasonably took more than the allotted 15 minutes. A petrol station is, by its nature, a multi-purpose stop, and a 15-minute limit fails to account for normal customer activities.

 * No Breach of Contract or Legitimate Parking Contravention: The visit in question was a legitimate use of the site's facilities as a genuine customer. The parking charge represents a punitive penalty for a normal, expected activity and does not reflect any genuine loss to Euro Car Parks or the landowner. I am happy to provide a copy of the receipt/proof of parcel collection as evidence of the drivers legitimate purpose for being on site.

Your choice. Cancel the PCN or send me a POPLA code. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN or confirm your intellectual malnourishment and contest my appeal to POPLA where you will undoubtedly waste your money for an assessment of ECP's failures. 

 *Optional/alternative add-on at the end*

Under these circumstances, I reserve my right not to identify the driver and ask that you cancel the PCN immediately or, if you refuse to do so, send me a POPLA code in order that I may make my representations there. I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you and my time at the court rate of £25.80 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Furthermore, if you pursue the matter against me as registered keeper when you have no lawful excuse and cannot rely on 'keeper liability' at all in this instance, you will be guilty of harassment which is another specific breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

I am making representations to *redacted* to have the penalty charge revoked. Complaints are also being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours faithfully, 

Khaggis

How does this sound? Cheers in advance!

Coupon-mad

But appealing isn't what you need to do first.

Khaggis

Coupon-mad said:

But appealing isn't what you need to do first.

Do you mean trying to get it cancelled by speaking to the manager at the place or land owner? Previous people tried that and he said he'd do it but nothing came of it. Or am I missing something, sorry?

Coupon-mad

As I said, read the MFG successes (I recall two this year). Both posted in the thread I said to look in. Both after being fobbed off first.

Khaggis

Coupon-mad said:

As I said, read the MFG successes (I recall two this year). Both posted in the thread I said to look in. Both after being fobbed off first.

Ok I think I've found one of them and I'm going straight to contacting MFG and CC'ing Esso to complain to them. This is the email I've drafted up, does this look ok?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally raise a complaint regarding a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) I received for my vehicle, registration *Redacted*, at your Esso MFG Sixways, Erdington, Birmingham, B23 6BJ site on 27/07/25 (PCN Issued on 01/08/2025). I understand this parking charge was issued by Euro Car Parks, but as a valued customer of your brand, I am complaining directly to you in the hope that you will intervene and have this charge cancelled.

My visit was a legitimate use of your facilities. The purpose of my stop was to refuel my vehicle and to collect a Yodel parcel which had been delivered there. Both of these activities are standard, expected customer actions at a modern petrol station.

The parking charge was issued because the time I spent on the forecourt exceeded the 15-minute limit imposed by the parking company. This time limit is wholly unreasonable for a site that offers services beyond a simple fuel transaction. The process of filling up, paying at the counter (which can involve queuing), and then collecting a parcel from a locker system easily takes more than 15 minutes, not accounting for the time required to read any signage. I have proof of the parcel collection to support my claim that my stay was for a legitimate purpose.

The enforcement of such a restrictive time limit is in direct conflict with the services you offer to your customers. It punishes genuine patrons for using the facilities as intended. The actions of Euro Car Parks, an agent acting on your behalf, feel predatory and have resulted in a significant amount of stress and frustration for me, a genuine customer.

I have been a loyal customer of your brand for some time, and it is incredibly disappointing to be penalised for simply using the services provided at one of your sites. This incident has left me feeling incredibly let down and has made me seriously reconsider using your petrol stations in the future.

I urge you to review this matter and instruct Euro Car Parks to cancel this charge.

Yours sincerely,

Khaggis

Does this look ok?