Car dealer false advertising refused refund

Aylesbury_Duck

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Home > Options > Safety > Hazard

This menu opens a small hatch which reveals a button you press to activate the hazard lights.  And hope you haven't been ploughed into by the cars behind before you've done all that.

It's better and cheaper than having a big red button somewhere obvious.

Grumpy_chap

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Home > Options > Safety > Hazard

This menu opens a small hatch which reveals a button you press to activate the hazard lights.  And hope you haven't been ploughed into by the cars behind before you've done all that.

It's better and cheaper than having a big red button somewhere obvious.

Or just crazy.

In fact, I only realised I did not know where the hazard light button was yesterday as, for the first time in two years or ownership, I wanted to activate the hazard lights.
So, even if I'd known that menu process, I would have forgotten it.  
It is most likely that I will have forgotten that menu process by the next time I need to know.

Aylesbury_Duck

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Home > Options > Safety > Hazard

This menu opens a small hatch which reveals a button you press to activate the hazard lights.  And hope you haven't been ploughed into by the cars behind before you've done all that.

It's better and cheaper than having a big red button somewhere obvious.

Or just crazy.

In fact, I only realised I did not know where the hazard light button was yesterday as, for the first time in two years or ownership, I wanted to activate the hazard lights.
So, even if I'd known that menu process, I would have forgotten it.  
It is most likely that I will have forgotten that menu process by the next time I need to know.

Please don't rely on it...I was being sarcastic 😁

Grumpy_chap

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Home > Options > Safety > Hazard

This menu opens a small hatch which reveals a button you press to activate the hazard lights.  And hope you haven't been ploughed into by the cars behind before you've done all that.

It's better and cheaper than having a big red button somewhere obvious.

Or just crazy.

In fact, I only realised I did not know where the hazard light button was yesterday as, for the first time in two years or ownership, I wanted to activate the hazard lights.
So, even if I'd known that menu process, I would have forgotten it.  
It is most likely that I will have forgotten that menu process by the next time I need to know.

Please don't rely on it...I was being sarcastic 😁

Oh.

I actually resorted to looking at the manual.
It turns out there is a hidden button up in the headlining with marking so subtle you'd never notice there was a button there.
Hope I can remember that next time I need to know.

born_again

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Well, RFM 🤣🤣🤣

Aylesbury_Duck

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Ectophile said:

TELLIT01 said:

It may seem trivial, but if I'd bought a car which was advertised with heated seats, and then discovered there was no way to operate them I'd be pretty unhappy too.  I think that kind of problem is going to become more common with the move to everything being controlled through an infotainment centre.  What's wrong with a simple switch?

A simple switch costs more.  The switch itself costs money.  Then it has to be added to the wiring loom, which adds to the complexity of that.  And these days, everything on a car is controlled by a computer, so the switch will be wired into a computer and won't actually turn the seats on.

A button on a touch screen costs nothing to manufacture.  The car's computer can then send a message to the seats to turn themselves on via the CAN bus.

I understand all that but I do think it is all taken too far when the switch to activate the hazard lights is hidden at some far depth of a computer screen menu, as in my car.

Every car is supposed to have an actual physical hazard lights button.

Well, I'll be blown over if I know where it is...

Home > Options > Safety > Hazard

This menu opens a small hatch which reveals a button you press to activate the hazard lights.  And hope you haven't been ploughed into by the cars behind before you've done all that.

It's better and cheaper than having a big red button somewhere obvious.

Or just crazy.

In fact, I only realised I did not know where the hazard light button was yesterday as, for the first time in two years or ownership, I wanted to activate the hazard lights.
So, even if I'd known that menu process, I would have forgotten it.  
It is most likely that I will have forgotten that menu process by the next time I need to know.

Please don't rely on it...I was being sarcastic 😁

Oh.

I actually resorted to looking at the manual.
It turns out there is a hidden button up in the headlining with marking so subtle you'd never notice there was a button there.
Hope I can remember that next time I need to know.

That's ridiculous.  It's one of the functions that should be immediately visible, accessible quickly and without having to take much of the driver's attention.

Reminds me of a time many years ago where a place I worked at underwent an expensive and very white re-fit of its public lobby.  Shortly before completion and the grand opening,  the designer was running around complaining to anyone who'd listen that the red fire extinguishers and fire alarm call points were spoiling the aesthetics, and could something be done to make their presence less visually jarring.

Grumpy_chap

Aylesbury_Duck said:

That's ridiculous.  It's one of the functions that should be immediately visible, accessible quickly and without having to take much of the driver's attention.

I do agree.

In fact, having checked the manual, I simply thought the manual was incorrect as I had never noticed a button in the position indicated.
The manual shows a big black button with red warning triangle and illuminated edge set in the pale cream headlining.  Not the most immediately accessible placing, but seemingly obvious.
Thinking I'd never seen such a button, I went to the car to check.  There is indeed a button, but it is wholly flush and exactly the same colour as the headlining with a very feint warning triangle symbol.  Very subtle and inconspicuous but also nearly wholly useless.

oldagetraveller1

Difficult to miss when it's right in front of you. Why hide it in some obscure position?

Okell

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

That's ridiculous.  It's one of the functions that should be immediately visible, accessible quickly and without having to take much of the driver's attention.

I do agree.

In fact, having checked the manual, I simply thought the manual was incorrect as I had never noticed a button in the position indicated.
The manual shows a big black button with red warning triangle and illuminated edge set in the pale cream headlining.  Not the most immediately accessible placing, but seemingly obvious.
Thinking I'd never seen such a button, I went to the car to check.  There is indeed a button, but it is wholly flush and exactly the same colour as the headlining with a very feint warning triangle symbol.  Very subtle and inconspicuous but also nearly wholly useless.

What car have you got?

(I want to steer clear of it - both literally and metaphorically...)

Grumpy_chap

Okell said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

That's ridiculous.  It's one of the functions that should be immediately visible, accessible quickly and without having to take much of the driver's attention.

I do agree.

In fact, having checked the manual, I simply thought the manual was incorrect as I had never noticed a button in the position indicated.
The manual shows a big black button with red warning triangle and illuminated edge set in the pale cream headlining.  Not the most immediately accessible placing, but seemingly obvious.
Thinking I'd never seen such a button, I went to the car to check.  There is indeed a button, but it is wholly flush and exactly the same colour as the headlining with a very feint warning triangle symbol.  Very subtle and inconspicuous but also nearly wholly useless.

What car have you got?

(I want to steer clear of it - both literally and metaphorically...)

TM3.