Car dealer false advertising refused refund

Acedrive

daveyjp said:

Its an unfortunate fact of life that if any seller relies on caveats or disclaimers about accuracy of any information your only option is to do your own due diligence before purchase.

Have the advert at hand when you go and view the car and tick off everything you are expecting and need to be fitted, then ensure everything actually works. Rejection before purchase is far easier than afterwards. 

The car has heated seats fitted. as according to the advert, doesn't matter that I did not check at the time, its been discovered now and within 30 days. 

sheramber

Acedrive said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Acedrive said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Acedrive said:

I have stated that the dealer fitted it, an aftermarket unit from Aliexpress is not an upgrade in my mind,,and because of this unit fitted, the heated seats do not function nor does the cars usb port work either.

How do you know that the Dealer fitted the after-market display unit?
It may have been fitted by a previous owner of the car and the Dealer may not have known - it is obviously not that different (visually) from the standard fit unit otherwise you would have noticed from the test drive.

Whether the aftermarket unit is an upgrade or not is really rather moot - unable to prove either way as "upgrade" can be subjective.

I still don't think the after-market display is necessarily a sufficient grounds to reject the car.
Rather than raising your concerns about the display unit being an after-market exchange, your compliant may have more grounds if raised around the specific features that are not functioning.  The Dealer may be able to provide instructions how these features are operated, or the root cause of the features not operating may be unrelated to the display unit.  The root causes may then be resolved under either warranty or consumer rights.

I have already written that the dealer had the screen fitted, as confirmed by the dealer, otherwise I would not have stated that.

OK - but I still am not convinced that the head unit is grounds to reject the car.

The Dealer has purchased a car at auction and found it has a faulty head unit so fitted a replacement.

The core issue you have is that the USB ports and the heated seats do not work.
Have you requested these faults to be rectified, rather than objecting to the screen unit and / or seeking to reject the car?

The car was a trade in, the dealer told us this, I asked if the  heated seats were not working would they be fixed, he said no because they will not work with the screen that has been fitted, which we were told after the purchase, I'm not seeking to reject the car on the info screen alone, rather more importantly because of features the car has that will not work simply because they have had a cheap screen fitted.

Example of consumer rights 2015,

 Hilary bought a washing machine yesterday from WashALot Plc. It was advertised to wash clothes on a quick setting within 60 minutes. However it doesn't fill with water and so won't clean her clothes. This product is not therefore fit for purpose, is faulty, and doesn't match the description of washing clothes within 60 minutes. Hilary would therefore have rights against WashALot Plc under The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

So our car is fitted and advertised with heated seats, the seats will not switch on because of limitations of the screen.

this, I asked if the  heated seats were not working would they be fixed, he said no because they will not work with the screen that has been fitted, which we were told after the purchase, I'm not seeking to reject the car on the info screen alon

Gou knew the heated seats didn’t work before you left the dealership.

That would have been the time to reject the car because the heated seats didn’t work.

Aylesbury_Duck

What I don't understand is why, having taken CAB advice, rejected the car and then prepared to write the letter, you have now retrieved the car and are debating the situation with us, a bunch of strangers on the web.

Reject the car and write the letter.  I suspect the dealer will fold and either fix the problems or refund you.  If they don't, you can then decide whether you want to go to court.

Acedrive

sheramber said:

Acedrive said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Acedrive said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Acedrive said:

I have stated that the dealer fitted it, an aftermarket unit from Aliexpress is not an upgrade in my mind,,and because of this unit fitted, the heated seats do not function nor does the cars usb port work either.

How do you know that the Dealer fitted the after-market display unit?
It may have been fitted by a previous owner of the car and the Dealer may not have known - it is obviously not that different (visually) from the standard fit unit otherwise you would have noticed from the test drive.

Whether the aftermarket unit is an upgrade or not is really rather moot - unable to prove either way as "upgrade" can be subjective.

I still don't think the after-market display is necessarily a sufficient grounds to reject the car.
Rather than raising your concerns about the display unit being an after-market exchange, your compliant may have more grounds if raised around the specific features that are not functioning.  The Dealer may be able to provide instructions how these features are operated, or the root cause of the features not operating may be unrelated to the display unit.  The root causes may then be resolved under either warranty or consumer rights.

I have already written that the dealer had the screen fitted, as confirmed by the dealer, otherwise I would not have stated that.

OK - but I still am not convinced that the head unit is grounds to reject the car.

The Dealer has purchased a car at auction and found it has a faulty head unit so fitted a replacement.

The core issue you have is that the USB ports and the heated seats do not work.
Have you requested these faults to be rectified, rather than objecting to the screen unit and / or seeking to reject the car?

The car was a trade in, the dealer told us this, I asked if the  heated seats were not working would they be fixed, he said no because they will not work with the screen that has been fitted, which we were told after the purchase, I'm not seeking to reject the car on the info screen alone, rather more importantly because of features the car has that will not work simply because they have had a cheap screen fitted.

Example of consumer rights 2015,

 Hilary bought a washing machine yesterday from WashALot Plc. It was advertised to wash clothes on a quick setting within 60 minutes. However it doesn't fill with water and so won't clean her clothes. This product is not therefore fit for purpose, is faulty, and doesn't match the description of washing clothes within 60 minutes. Hilary would therefore have rights against WashALot Plc under The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

So our car is fitted and advertised with heated seats, the seats will not switch on because of limitations of the screen.

this, I asked if the  heated seats were not working would they be fixed, he said no because they will not work with the screen that has been fitted, which we were told after the purchase, I'm not seeking to reject the car on the info screen alon

Gou knew the heated seats didn’t work before you left the dealership.

That would have been the time to reject the car because the heated seats didn’t work.

No we discovered after purchase and leaving the dealership, they then told us after I asked for a refund that the heated seats wont work because of an aftermarket screen had been fitted, also they probably would have been told that original functions may not work after this screen was fitted, I mean I just googled this and found out!

Acedrive

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What I don't understand is why, having taken CAB advice, rejected the car and then prepared to write the letter, you have now retrieved the car and are debating the situation with us, a bunch of strangers on the web.

Reject the car and write the letter.  I suspect the dealer will fold and either fix the problems or refund you.  If they don't, you can then decide whether you want to go to court.

Sorry I thought thats what a forum is for, asking questions, getting advice, positive or negative.
With the dealer already refusing to give a refund and offering no resolution to this problem, apart from suggesting its our fault for not reading their disclaimer 

Aylesbury_Duck

Acedrive said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

What I don't understand is why, having taken CAB advice, rejected the car and then prepared to write the letter, you have now retrieved the car and are debating the situation with us, a bunch of strangers on the web.

Reject the car and write the letter.  I suspect the dealer will fold and either fix the problems or refund you.  If they don't, you can then decide whether you want to go to court.

Sorry I thought thats what a forum is for, asking questions, getting advice, positive or negative.
With the dealer already refusing to give a refund and offering no resolution to this problem, apart from suggesting its our fault for not reading their disclaimer 

It is, but you came here after getting advice from CAB and beginning the right process.  Now you've partially backtracked, and signalled to the dealer that you're either less than serious, or not confident of your entitlement.  The letter before action may change their approach, but having retrieved the car you've lessened the impact and will have to take it back again to serve the letter.  Several people on here don't think you have a compelling case, though many of them said so before you added more problems to the original complaint, and the dealer has already said "take us to court" or words to that effect, so what now?  It's either accepting you don't have a case, or taking it to the next stage, which you started and aborted.

For what it's worth, now you've told us about the seats, I think you have a better case, but I also think you're going to have to up the ante to get a resolution.  If they dig their heels in and let you take them to court, you can retrieve the car and withdraw if you felt that was the best thing to do.

Grumpy_chap

Acedrive said:

The car was a trade in, the dealer told us this, I asked if the  heated seats were not working would they be fixed, he said no because they will not work with the screen that has been fitted, which we were told after the purchase, I'm not seeking to reject the car on the info screen alone, rather more importantly because of features the car has that will not work simply because they have had a cheap screen fitted.

Example of consumer rights 2015,

 Hilary bought a washing machine yesterday from WashALot Plc. It was advertised to wash clothes on a quick setting within 60 minutes. However it doesn't fill with water and so won't clean her clothes. This product is not therefore fit for purpose, is faulty, and doesn't match the description of washing clothes within 60 minutes. Hilary would therefore have rights against WashALot Plc under The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

So our car is fitted and advertised with heated seats, the seats will not switch on because of limitations of the screen.

I don't think the heated seats not working on a car is really comparable to a washing machine that will not fill with water.

The primary purpose of a washing machine is to wash your clothes.  That purpose is wholly defeated if the washing machine will not fill with water.

The primary purpose of a car is to get you from A to B.  That purpose is not wholly defeated if the heated seats won't heat.

Simply non-functioning heated seats and a non-functioning USB connector might not be sufficient grounds to reject the car.

Okell

Acedrive said:

Okell said:

Acedrive said:

pinkshoes said:

Acedrive said:

I have stated that the dealer fitted it, an aftermarket unit from Aliexpress is not an upgrade in my mind,,and because of this unit fitted, the heated seats do not function nor does the cars usb port work either.

OK, so now you've listed something that is evidence that the car is not functioning as it should. I assume these were listed in the advert? (sorry, too tired to read the advert). A little more feasible than just the radio not functioning.

You will need to outline clearly in your letter before action what EXACTLY you are rejecting the car for, giving them a deadline for when you want your refund. Personally I would have had an independent expert look over the car to highlight everything that didn't work against the advert. Bit late for that, and taking it back once you've rejected it doesn't look good. 

Your refund needs to reflect any mileage driven. How far have you driven it in the three weeks you've owned it? If it's less than 50 miles then a full refund is appropriate. If you've done 100s of miles then you need to pay for this usage. 

... Also they told us today that they have a disclaimer on their autotrader advert that states its not their fault if a vehicle they sell does not match the advertised discriprition .

So long as they are a trader (ie selling the vehicle as part of their business or trade) then such a disclaimer is meaningless and they cannot enforce it against you as a consumer.  In fact it might be a criminal offence (enforceable by trading standards) under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations even to have such a disclaimer.

@Acedrive -  what to me is the issue is not whether they advertised the vehicle as having an aftermarket screen/system (although personally I think they should have done) but whether (1) the vehicle has all the features functioning that that model Jeep could reasonably be expected to have, and (2) whether the description was correct.

If your car doesn't satisfy (1) and (2) then I'd argue that you have a case for rejection*.

The advert says it has heated front seats.  You say it doesn't.  Therefore it is not as described.  What has the trader told you about this?  Is it because they don't work or because you don't know how to operate them?

In what other ways does the car fail to satisfy (1) and (2)?

Obviously if you can demonstrate that some of the "reasonably to be expected" or advertised features do not work properly because of the aftermarket screen/system, you have a stronger case.



*But have you taken the car back from them after you said you were rejecting?  That rather undermines your whole case for rejection...

Acedrive said:

Okell said:

Acedrive said:

pinkshoes said:

Acedrive said:

I have stated that the dealer fitted it, an aftermarket unit from Aliexpress is not an upgrade in my mind,,and because of this unit fitted, the heated seats do not function nor does the cars usb port work either.

OK, so now you've listed something that is evidence that the car is not functioning as it should. I assume these were listed in the advert? (sorry, too tired to read the advert). A little more feasible than just the radio not functioning.

You will need to outline clearly in your letter before action what EXACTLY you are rejecting the car for, giving them a deadline for when you want your refund. Personally I would have had an independent expert look over the car to highlight everything that didn't work against the advert. Bit late for that, and taking it back once you've rejected it doesn't look good. 

Your refund needs to reflect any mileage driven. How far have you driven it in the three weeks you've owned it? If it's less than 50 miles then a full refund is appropriate. If you've done 100s of miles then you need to pay for this usage. 

... Also they told us today that they have a disclaimer on their autotrader advert that states its not their fault if a vehicle they sell does not match the advertised discriprition .

So long as they are a trader (ie selling the vehicle as part of their business or trade) then such a disclaimer is meaningless and they cannot enforce it against you as a consumer.  In fact it might be a criminal offence (enforceable by trading standards) under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations even to have such a disclaimer.

@Acedrive -  what to me is the issue is not whether they advertised the vehicle as having an aftermarket screen/system (although personally I think they should have done) but whether (1) the vehicle has all the features functioning that that model Jeep could reasonably be expected to have, and (2) whether the description was correct.

If your car doesn't satisfy (1) and (2) then I'd argue that you have a case for rejection*.

The advert says it has heated front seats.  You say it doesn't.  Therefore it is not as described.  What has the trader told you about this?  Is it because they don't work or because you don't know how to operate them?

In what other ways does the car fail to satisfy (1) and (2)?

Obviously if you can demonstrate that some of the "reasonably to be expected" or advertised features do not work properly because of the aftermarket screen/system, you have a stronger case.



*But have you taken the car back from them after you said you were rejecting?  That rather undermines your whole case for rejection...

sorry their disclaimer is on their website, and it reads "Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the above information but errors may occur. Please check with a salesperson."
The car has heated front seats as described in their advert on autotrader, they now do not operate because of the fitment of an aftermarket screen that has some function limitations. probably because of the lack of wiring from the back of the unit.

sorry their disclaimer is on their website, and it reads "Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the above information but errors may occur. Please check with a salesperson."...

Hold on.

That phrase - "Please check with a salesperson" - is significantly different from what you said earlier:  "... they have a disclaimer on their autotrader advert that states its not their fault if a vehicle they sell does not match the advertised discriprition (sic)".

They are not permitted by law to attempt to evade liability for misdescribing what they are selling, but what they actually seem to be doing is asking you to confirm with the salesperson that the description is correct.

So did you ask the salesperson if the heated seats and USB port worked as advertised?

I'm not certain it makes a difference to the merits of your case, but obviously if you did ask for confirmation that the heated seats etc worked, it would make your case stronger

Okell

Ectophile said:

There seem to be some ridiculous statements here by people who argue that if you buy a used car, you deserve all you get.  The car may be missing features in the advert but that;'s the buyer's fault.

A motor trader is responsible for knowing what they are selling.  They are expected to be the experts.  Some weasel wording disclaimer in the advert isn't good enough.

I agree with you.

From many of the threads on here about misdescribed used cars you'd think that the Consumer Rights Act didn't apply to such sales.

Okell

If heated seats were advertised (they were) and if those heated seats don't actually work I'd suggest that is a sufficient failure to comply with contract to allow the OP to exercise the short term right to reject for a full refund.  Which is what I think CAB adivsed him to do

The OP is under no obligation to accept a repair or a price reduction

Whether the OP has scuppered that by "accepting" the car back I don't know, but I'd advise them to go back to the dealer and tell them they are exercising their short term right to reject for a full refund.  Whether that will work now or not, I have no idea.

The trader can't charge anything for use under the short term right to reject