Ovecharged for a new boiler

tgk1

I purchased a new boiler in November   The person who sold it to me was recommended by a trusted friend.  I was widowed in April of last year so i would say i was pretty vulnerable at the time and trusted the company.  Normally i would do all sort of price comparisons.  I knew I needed a new one as I had had a couple of leaks and i wanted to make sure there were no mishaps over Winter.

He charged me £3883.00

SInce then I had the same company fix a shower that was not heating up properly.  Fast forward the job they did was awful. I had them out to correct their shoddy work.  They really didn't do a good job at ll and left me with a problem with my water pressure. So my working shower would go cold half was through.  

They then demanded payment.  I refused as the job was not completed.  I have since taken advice from Cab Scotland and was advised that I should offer to pay for the shower. Although it was a cartridge I had been expecting them to install I had let them install the shower.  I should refuse to pay for the work.

In order to do this I requested an itemised bill so I could see the costs.  The invoices they send out  are generic.  ie shower installation.  I asked for both the boiler and shower invoices to be broken down into parts,labour and vat.  They refused.  In the meantime  I was advised that I had paid too much for my Boiler.  When it was installed I was ofered a £300 discount as I was an oap.  As well as this i was offered a discount of over £600 if I paid cash. I refused saying that I wouldn't want to carry that much cash around. He then offered to go to the bank with me.  I refused and paid by credit card. 

 I have since done some sleuthing.  All in all the cost of a boiler the same as mine is £1417 including vat.  Adding in the filter and labour it should have cost around £2000.   At the time i was still going through probate and asked if there was an option to pay in instalments.  I was advised that it didn't work for them.  I can see why no instalments as they would then have to quote the published price not their made up one.  I know they have done this with other people who have paid cash in return for a discount.  To my mind they have made around 2 grand out of my boiler. defrauded the taxman out of the amount they made(2K)  are conning their customers as they are hiking the cost of the boiler so that they can offer discounts and make cash themselves.

They have said they will take me to court for payment for the shower(474.00)  To save money they made me an offer of £100 off this amount this week and we would not go to court. I replied and said i was taking legal advice and would come back to them.

Previously this man was also at my door at 8 o clock at night ringing the bell, knocking the door and rattling the letterbox after sending me a text message and calling me twice. I ignored these.  I was inside for the night with the dog and I wasn't going to answer.  He only went away when I emailed their office and told his wife I would call the Police if he didn't go away and that this was intimidation and harrassment.  I called Police but they had a long wait.  I submitted a contact form and they called me back. They also followed it up with an email with a crime number.

So far for the shower I have a job not completed.  when they came out to allegedly put the problems right they did not.  Cosmetically the shower looks awful and I did not get to choose it. There are red rawl plugs showing from the old fixing.  

I have paid another plumber to sort out my water pressure.  Check out the other shower that was going cold and to make sure the boiler installation was sound.  All are ok now.  I emailed Triton and had they done their due diligence then they could have bought a new Triton shower and the fixing would have been 3 mill out.  enough to disguise. They did  not do this.

As far as the boiler is concerned I so have on my radar to report them to Hmrc, Trading standards and a section 75 and the Police report..  If I have to go to court I would like these things to be included in my defence. although they relate to the boiler it goes to his character and working practices.  I thought of writing to them and putting all of this to them and asking them to take the payment for the shower from their excess profits made from the boiler.  I would also like the money back that they scammed from me for the boiler.  I am not certain what is the best thing to do.  I do know back then I was widowed and probably not thinking as straight as I normally do.  

They also asked me as they are a family business not to put any negative reviews on social media.  I haven't as yet.  But we do have a site called Scotlands Scammers which is a useful resource to reference before getting any jobs done.  

I would appreciate any guidance that can be offered. I do feel stupid.  But a few other people have posted and they were scammed too and I thought lets get it out there.   

Thank you

MyRealNameToo

which boiler did he fit?

At the end of the day you contact him about the job, it wasnt him cold calling you. He quoted a price and you were happy with the price. They then have actually done the job you paid him to do.... this isnt one of those roofers who knock on OAPs doors say the roof urgently needs doing, charges £2k and all they do is throw some moss from the roof to the floor to make it look like work was done. 

Sounds like you have a combi-boiler? The average cost for supply and fitting according to a couple of internet sites is about £3,800 with fitting being between £1,000 and £2,000 so your claim that it should have been £2k all in is looking very optimistic. Ours was above the UK average and I think we got a good deal. 

Your allegation that they intended to commit tax fraud is libellous unless you have evidence to back up your accusations. Whilst there are other issues with giving a discount for cash not having to declare the revenue to HMRC is not the only reason why a business may prefer cash over cards. For a start cards come with fees and if they have an old fashioned merchant account they dont get their money for some time so again they are having to pay for parts and labour out of their own pocket whilst awaiting for the card payment to clear. 

Different firms charge different prices for what some may see as the same thing, just because A charges more than B doesnt mean A is making excess profits. 

Aylesbury_Duck

The time to dispute the quote was nine months ago.  Even then, unless Scotland is much cheaper than everywhere else, what you've paid doesn't look inflated.  There shouldn't be a cartel, so there are bound to be people who would charge less, and others who'd charge more.

All the rest of the stuff about tax, etc is just noise without the full facts.

Alderbank

Sadly, both boilers and skilled tradespeople to install them are no cheaper here than anywhere else in the UK!

elsien

You have no grounds to reclaim any of the money you paid on your boiler. Save yourself the stress of trying a section 75 claim because it won’t work. 

And a police report about what? As above, they didn’t cold call you, you contacted them. Who advised you that you paid too much for your boiler? And even if you did it was your decision to make from the quote that you had. 

You need to stop conflating the boiler and the shower issues given that your boiler appears to be working absolutely fine. They are not the same. 

screech_78

Alderbank said:

Sadly, both boilers and skilled tradespeople to install them are no cheaper here than anywhere else in the UK!

Quite. I’m extremely lucky that I’ve never had to pay for labour on any works done as we have every type of tradesman in our immediate family. However the cost doesn’t look off to me at all. 

PHK

I agree that the boiler cost doesn't seem excessive at all, in fact I would say it's at the lower end. 

There doesn't seem to be a scam here, just a shower installation that has gone wrong. 

What you need to do is get an inspection and  report showing what the fault with the installation is and what would need doing to put it right. Note this is not the same as a quote to repair. Nor is it another installer, saying this is all wrong and it will cost you £xxx to put right. 

You'd then present the report to the installer with the request to put things right and reimburse you for the inspection and report.

If they don't do this THEN you get quotes for repair, do the repair and then take the installer to court for the repair plus inspection plus report. 

Anything else is a distraction. 

chubsta

I recently paid £3890 to change my boiler from a standard one to a combo and was extremely pleased with that price compared to BG etc. The cost of the boiler is only part of it, you also have to factor in labour but not just the minutes they spent in your house, that charge also includes travel, admin etc, including any previous visits to quote which all take time and money. Then there is the cost of the van they came in, training, tools, tax, insurance, and of course they do want to make a profit.
The money you pay them covers a lot more than the physical boiler and its installation, the same as any trades.

Grumpy_chap

There seems to be a lot of "noise" in the concerns that are raised.

So far as I can ascertain, the boiler was quoted at £3,883.
The OP agreed to pay £3,883.
The boiler was fitted.
The OP paid the agreed amount.

That does not seem to be any kind of scam or over-charge.  
There may be some buyer's remorse in so far as the OP now feels the agreed price does not represent good value for money.


The same company that installed the boiler then installed a new shower for £474.
The work was not to a comparable standard as the boiler work.
The OP has raised a dispute with the Plumber.
The Plumber has said they consider the full amount due and will pursue via the court if not paid.  For an easy life, the Plumber has agreed to a reduction of £100 if the balance for the shower is paid.
If this were me, I'd pay the £374 as full and final settlement on the shower and get this matter over with.

tgk1 said:

I purchased a new boiler in November   The person who sold it to me was recommended by a trusted friend.  I was widowed in April of last year so i would say i was pretty vulnerable at the time and trusted the company.  Normally i would do all sort of price comparisons.  I knew I needed a new one as I had had a couple of leaks and i wanted to make sure there were no mishaps over Winter.

He charged me £3883.00

SInce then I had the same company fix a shower that was not heating up properly.  Fast forward the job they did was awful. I had them out to correct their shoddy work.  They really didn't do a good job at ll and left me with a problem with my water pressure. So my working shower would go cold half was through.  

They then demanded payment.  I refused as the job was not completed.  I have since taken advice from Cab Scotland and was advised that I should offer to pay for the shower. Although it was a cartridge I had been expecting them to install I had let them install the shower.  I should refuse to pay for the work.

In order to do this I requested an itemised bill so I could see the costs.  The invoices they send out  are generic.  ie shower installation.  I asked for both the boiler and shower invoices to be broken down into parts,labour and vat.  They refused.  In the meantime  I was advised that I had paid too much for my Boiler.  When it was installed I was ofered a £300 discount as I was an oap.  As well as this i was offered a discount of over £600 if I paid cash. I refused saying that I wouldn't want to carry that much cash around. He then offered to go to the bank with me.  I refused and paid by credit card. 

 I have since done some sleuthing.  All in all the cost of a boiler the same as mine is £1417 including vat.  Adding in the filter and labour it should have cost around £2000.   At the time i was still going through probate and asked if there was an option to pay in instalments.  I was advised that it didn't work for them.  I can see why no instalments as they would then have to quote the published price not their made up one.  I know they have done this with other people who have paid cash in return for a discount.  To my mind they have made around 2 grand out of my boiler. defrauded the taxman out of the amount they made(2K)  are conning their customers as they are hiking the cost of the boiler so that they can offer discounts and make cash themselves.

They have said they will take me to court for payment for the shower(474.00)  To save money they made me an offer of £100 off this amount this week and we would not go to court. I replied and said i was taking legal advice and would come back to them.

Previously this man was also at my door at 8 o clock at night ringing the bell, knocking the door and rattling the letterbox after sending me a text message and calling me twice. I ignored these.  I was inside for the night with the dog and I wasn't going to answer.  He only went away when I emailed their office and told his wife I would call the Police if he didn't go away and that this was intimidation and harrassment.  I called Police but they had a long wait.  I submitted a contact form and they called me back. They also followed it up with an email with a crime number.

So far for the shower I have a job not completed.  when they came out to allegedly put the problems right they did not.  Cosmetically the shower looks awful and I did not get to choose it. There are red rawl plugs showing from the old fixing.  

I have paid another plumber to sort out my water pressure.  Check out the other shower that was going cold and to make sure the boiler installation was sound.  All are ok now.  I emailed Triton and had they done their due diligence then they could have bought a new Triton shower and the fixing would have been 3 mill out.  enough to disguise. They did  not do this.

As far as the boiler is concerned I so have on my radar to report them to Hmrc, Trading standards and a section 75 and the Police report..  If I have to go to court I would like these things to be included in my defence. although they relate to the boiler it goes to his character and working practices.  I thought of writing to them and putting all of this to them and asking them to take the payment for the shower from their excess profits made from the boiler.  I would also like the money back that they scammed from me for the boiler.  I am not certain what is the best thing to do.  I do know back then I was widowed and probably not thinking as straight as I normally do.  

They also asked me as they are a family business not to put any negative reviews on social media.  I haven't as yet.  But we do have a site called Scotlands Scammers which is a useful resource to reference before getting any jobs done.  

I would appreciate any guidance that can be offered. I do feel stupid.  But a few other people have posted and they were scammed too and I thought lets get it out there.   

Thank you

outtatune

What is wrong with the shower?

tgk1

I didn't know I was getting a new shower.  The original plumber called me on the friday to say he was going away on holiday. That sombody else was going to be coming to install the "part"  that it wasn't in yet. They had problems sourcing it.  The plumber who was sub contracted to do the job called me on Monday morning. Stated that the "part " was not in yet and that it should be by the afternoon and he would come and fit it then.  He arrived at my house in the afternoon.  I showed him where the shower was and he went to work. When he called me to the shower a while later he had fitted a shower.  All of the time they were talking to me it was about a part.  I understood it to be the cartridge which i think heats the water. No mention was made of a new shower.  I told him I didn't know i was getting a shower.  Of course the fittings were not in the same place as the original so I could see red raw plugs. It was ok the plumber said.  He had siliconed them.  The backing plate?  that would cover the pipes were too small and did not fit.  He said the plugs showing were regrettable. That he would need to go away and source something that would fit. He told me not to use it.  

I didn't see any point in broaching the fact that I had a new shower with him as it wasn't him that I had employed.  The shower ls chrome. I don't like chrome.  I was not given the chance to choose it.  It does look cheap and nasty.  He turned up unannounced a week later having lost my phone number.  He had sourced the backing plates that he thought would fit. He attached them.  They were big enough.  He asked me what I thought.  I told him it was not straight.  I have been putting up trellis in the back garden so got my spirit level and showed him.  He said he would straighten it. He didn't.  It was and is still not level.  He could not get the water to heat up so he fiddled with my water pressure.  Eventually it heated up and he left.

The next day I took a shower in the upstairs shower as I normally do.  The water kept running cold. This has never happened before.

I was in touch with the original plumber when he returned from his hols.  Pointed out the things that I was not happy about.  He arranged to come and sort them out.  He didn't.  

So here we are. I emaled Triton who mad my original shower.  They said the cartridges no onger existed for my shower.  But that if we purchased a Triton shower the fixings would be no more that 3ml out from the original.  

I have since had another plumber out to sort out my water pressure which he did.  He also took my upstairs shower apart to make sure there was no fault there and it was ok.

So that is where we are.