Share of freehold bought without consent of freeholder?

flaneurs_lobster

HiroA said:

sgthammer said:

Whatever else is going on with your freehold, it's not at all illegal for a company to be registered at a residential address. HMRC advice specifically allows it. Clauses in leases, local zoning plans etc forbidding "operating a business" are slightly different, but generally intended to proscribe public-facing activity where customers are coming and going, there's excessive machine noise, or the like.

The Company House says that you can complain about the registered address if the address is used without authority. I am one of the residents and also the joint freeholder so I think I can do this if I want to.

Why bother? Even if you are successful the registered address will just be changed to be elsewhere.

Will have no bearing on your underlying problem.

HiroA

I find out that there is a goverment agency which you can complain to if you think you have concerns about a company's activities and they can close the business if deemed necessary,  so this is one of the options I could take.  The company certifies that it has formed for lawful purposes - which are "to acquire, hold, maintain, repair and administer the freehold or leasehold land for the property" which they have no right to do so legally, they cannot publish this information which is misguiding as well as illegal. 

I will also apply for the official copy of register of title to the Land Registry which I will need if I want to take further actions.  In any case, the most important thing for me is to find out if any application to our property has been made without my knowledge.

HiroA

flaneurs_lobster said:

HiroA said:

sgthammer said:

Whatever else is going on with your freehold, it's not at all illegal for a company to be registered at a residential address. HMRC advice specifically allows it. Clauses in leases, local zoning plans etc forbidding "operating a business" are slightly different, but generally intended to proscribe public-facing activity where customers are coming and going, there's excessive machine noise, or the like.

The Company House says that you can complain about the registered address if the address is used without authority. I am one of the residents and also the joint freeholder so I think I can do this if I want to.

Why bother? Even if you are successful the registered address will just be changed to be elsewhere.

Will have no bearing on your underlying problem.

I wil have the chance to see their documents at least, and find out if freehold purchase has been made without my knowlege?  

sgthammer

Contacting the Land Registry is a good idea. You need to know how far this has gone behind your back. Keep a note of costs in case of further developments.

It's possible though, indeed likely, that no fraud or other illegality has been committed *yet*. "To acquire... the freehold" is a lawful business purpose even if you have no intention of letting it succeed. It only becomes unlawful depending on the means by which it's pursued.

If I have this straight, there are three flats:

1) You, owner-occupier with 50% share of freehold on the block

2) B, your nemesis, leaseholder

3) Owned by A, the remaining 50% freeholder, who doesn't live on site. So who does? Are there tenants? (This doesn't affect your case, I'm just trying to get context.)

Are these purpose-built flats, or a house that's been subdivided? The fact you've seen other residents' mail suggests perhaps a common front door and something like pigeonholes for letters?

Petitepea

@HiroA if you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are also leaseholders too, i think leaseholders only need agreement of 50% of said properties within a building to form a management company but I am not sure about how many properties need to agree when another leaseholder is wanting to purchase into the freehold? 

If you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are both leaseholders, then lets say if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold via 'A' and it does transpire they should have also sought your permission too then of course seek legal advice.

Do you have a declaration/deed of trust? If so and it hasn't been adhered to then seek advice on this.

With regards to the noise if you and 'A' are freeholders then you can attempt to get 'B' to reduce the noise as this would be a breach of lease. But if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold then I'm afraid there's not much that can be done to reduce the noise other than maybe speaking with your local council.

user1977

HiroA said:

sgthammer said:

Whatever else is going on with your freehold, it's not at all illegal for a company to be registered at a residential address. HMRC advice specifically allows it. Clauses in leases, local zoning plans etc forbidding "operating a business" are slightly different, but generally intended to proscribe public-facing activity where customers are coming and going, there's excessive machine noise, or the like.

The Company House says that you can complain about the registered address if the address is used without authority. I am one of the residents and also the joint freeholder so I think I can do this, and I might get the chance to view whatever documents they have submitted to defend it

The neighbouring flats have the right to have post delivered to them. Companies House is talking about a completely random address being used without the consent of the occupier, not flats having some sort of veto over their neighbours setting up companies. Pursuing Companies House about any of this would be a waste of your (and their) time.

HiroA

sgthammer said:

Contacting the Land Registry is a good idea. You need to know how far this has gone behind your back. Keep a note of costs in case of further developments.

It's possible though, indeed likely, that no fraud or other illegality has been committed *yet*. "To acquire... the freehold" is a lawful business purpose even if you have no intention of letting it succeed. It only becomes unlawful depending on the means by which it's pursued.

If I have this straight, there are three flats:

1) You, owner-occupier with 50% share of freehold on the block

2) B, your nemesis, leaseholder

3) Owned by A, the remaining 50% freeholder, who doesn't live on site. So who does? Are there tenants? (This doesn't affect your case, I'm just trying to get context.)

Are these purpose-built flats, or a house that's been subdivided? The fact you've seen other residents' mail suggests perhaps a common front door and something like pigeonholes for letters?

 1) yes, 2) Yes, B and other own the leasehold of their flat jointly. 3) A usually lets the flat but his son has been resident for the past several years. So 4 people live on site, there are 3 flats owned by 3 tenants  consisting of 4 people (A, B, B's joint leaseholder and myself).

MattMattMattUK

A could sell their share of the freehold to the Ltd and then split the shares 50/50 with B for whatever value they decide. It sounds like the situations is now that you own 50%, the same as you originally did and rather than Human A owning the other 50% of the leasehold they sold it to Ltd, which they then split 50/50 between A and B, meaning you own 50% and A and B nominally own 25% each by way of a Ltd. There is nothing inherently wrong with that and it is only an issue of the freehold and/or leasehold agreement specifically prohibit the selling of the share of the freehold, otherwise there is no issue with what they have done.

HiroA

Petitepea said:

@HiroA if you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are also leaseholders too, i think leaseholders only need agreement of 50% of said properties within a building to form a management company but I am not sure about how many properties need to agree when another leaseholder is wanting to purchase into the freehold? 

If you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are both leaseholders, then lets say if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold via 'A' and it does transpire they should have also sought your permission too then of course seek legal advice.

Do you have a declaration/deed of trust? If so and it hasn't been adhered to then seek advice on this.

With regards to the noise if you and 'A' are freeholders then you can attempt to get 'B' to reduce the noise as this would be a breach of lease. But if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold then I'm afraid there's not much that can be done to reduce the noise other than maybe speaking with your local council.

I think if other leaseholders are trying to set up a management company I will receive the notificiation of their application from the authority (if they are following a correct procedure).   We own the freehold as tennants in common by the Declaration of Trust, and no, it has not been adhered to. A does not want to have a lot to do with property management and refused to collaborate with me to resolve the nosie problem as landlord.  I have contacted the Council, but yes, this is the reason B is so keen to be a joint freeholder.   I have told him he was in breach, but all he did was to irrationally accuse that I was the one who was in breach. 

Petitepea

HiroA said:

Petitepea said:

@HiroA if you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are also leaseholders too, i think leaseholders only need agreement of 50% of said properties within a building to form a management company but I am not sure about how many properties need to agree when another leaseholder is wanting to purchase into the freehold? 

If you and 'A' shared the freehold 50/50 and as you are both leaseholders, then lets say if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold via 'A' and it does transpire they should have also sought your permission too then of course seek legal advice.

Do you have a declaration/deed of trust? If so and it hasn't been adhered to then seek advice on this.

With regards to the noise if you and 'A' are freeholders then you can attempt to get 'B' to reduce the noise as this would be a breach of lease. But if 'B' has purchased a share of the freehold then I'm afraid there's not much that can be done to reduce the noise other than maybe speaking with your local council.

I think if other leaseholders are trying to set up a management company I will receive the notificiation of their application from the authority (if they are following a correct procedure).   We own the freehold as tennants in common by the Declaration of Trust, and no, it has not been adhered to. A does not want to have a lot to do with property management and refused to collaborate with me to resolve the nosie problem as landlord.  I have contacted the Council, but yes, this is the reason B is so keen to be a joint freeholder.   I have told him he was in breach, but all he did was to irrationally accuse that I was the one who was in breach. 

If the declaration of trust has not been adhered to, you may have to get legal advice esp if monies are outstanding.
Are there any disputes with service charges being paid, do 'A' and 'B' make regular payments of their share?

If 'A' doesn't want a lot to do with managing the property, then I don't understand why 'A' bought into a property knowing this would be the situation.
Maybe remind 'A' that he is lucky to have a flat/apartment that comes with a share of the freehold and being able to manage the building without the need for an external property management company who do little by maintenance but charge thousands per year, is a far better situation than being ripped off by management companies.

If what @MattMattMattUK has said is correct and 'A' has sold half/some of their share of the freehold to 'B', then look into if you have any stronger rights as a freeholder with 50% of the share meaning majority freeholder.

Overall though I would at least try and meditate between you all to resolve and come to an agreement over whatever has annoyed each of the leaseholders, as this will be far less costly than any legal route.