Interpretation of traffic restriction sign

On-the-coast

I think it’s ambiguous to the average human being (myself included). 

I ran the image through google AI and if the AI answer is right then @Car1980 is basically correct. 

Stonk

Maybe I will dispute it then.  I was a bit worried about losing the opportunity to pay 50% within 21 days, but although it's not absolutely clear from the council's website, it looks like I might still be able to pay 50% for 21 further days after an unsuccessful appeal.

A motorist should not have to think along the lines of "if the rules were X, Y and Z then the sign would have said A, B and C, but it says D, E and F, or it's got a comma in it, or there's an "and" that wouldn't be there, etc, etc,  so the rules must be something else" !  My mind is supposed to be on the road, not decoding poorly-written signage.

Incidentally -- and I would not rely on this as a defence because it's not true -- I don't see how the issuer can tell from an instantaneous photo on entry that I was not there for the purposes of loading.

Stonk

On-the-coast said:

I think it’s ambiguous to the average human being (myself included). 

I ran the image through google AI 

Google's AI interpretation says no vehicles at all, except between 6pm and 10am -- (i) no motor vehicles (ii) here are some exceptions (iii) here are some time limits on those exceptions.  So all the buses going up and down the road would in contravention ...

Google's AI lies to me regularly.

user1977

Put it this way - it's very common to have pedestrianised (or similarly restricted) streets which have some out-of-hours concession for deliveries. I can't recall any which also only allowed buses/taxis at such hours as well - what would be the point of that?

Stonk

I agree -- with hindsight and a PCN to rule out other possibilities -- that the rules are likely to be: buses, taxis and private hire all day; loading at night only, and no other motor vehicles ever.  I just don't think the sign conveys those rules at all well.

I have contacted a different bit of the council pointing out that a reasonable interpretation of this sign appears to prohibit buses in the road during daytime, and that I think it's ambiguous.  Maybe they will incriminate themselves in their reply ...

DW190

Stonk said:

Ah, but would you have said that if I hadn't said that buses travelled in the road all day?  Or if I hadn't said I got a PCN at 11:30pm?  I wish I'd just posted the sign and asked what it means!

Thanks to all for your inputs.

Being a bus driver and former driving instructor I tend to understand signs that are in the highway code and the traffic signs manual.

Stonk

DW190 said:

Being a bus driver and former driving instructor I tend to understand signs that are in the highway code and the traffic signs manual.

Unnecessary snarky comment suggesting I don't know my road signs.  FYI, I knew in an instant what the upper sign meant.  It's the wordy one below that is the issue, and I don't remember that precise wordy sign being pictured and explained in the Highyway Code.  Maybe your copy is newer than mine.  Surely, you have to admit, it's not obvious?

Myci85

I would also wonder how they know you weren't loading. It doesn't specify only goods vehicles for loading, so you could feasibly have been collecting/dropping off a large item to someone living down the street I suppose...

DW190

Stonk said:

DW190 said:

Being a bus driver and former driving instructor I tend to understand signs that are in the highway code and the traffic signs manual.

Unnecessary snarky comment suggesting I don't know my road signs.  FYI, I knew in an instant what the upper sign meant.  It's the wordy one below that is the issue, and I don't remember that precise wordy sign being pictured and explained in the Highyway Code.  Maybe your copy is newer than mine.  Surely, you have to admit, it's not obvious?

Not being snarky at all.  But being a bus driver I have come across many signs that have the obvious and Exceptions.  As you say, you new in an instant what the upper part said "No Vehicles".

Car1980

The magic words to use in your appeal is "the onus is on the council to make restrictions clear."