MSE News: Faulty smart meters to be tackled and automatic compensation paid for problems

Marvel1

This should apply to the IHDs not working too to monitor.

MattMattMattUK

Marvel1 said:

This should apply to the IHDs not working too to monitor.

Considering how bad the IHDs can be and that the energy suppliers have no choice about where they buy them from it really should not. What would be far better is an update to the spec that mandates an Octopus Mini type device and solve any issues that way.

Scot_39

Most aren't interested in the technical options.

Ihds have a use.

And they and the meters that they work with are part of the suppliers responsibility.

So they should be expected to always supply and maintain so always work.

After all that is how "Einstein" adverts sell tge benefits of smart meters to the masses.

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

Most aren't interested in the technical options.

Ihds have a use.

And they and the meters that they work with are part of the suppliers responsibility.

So they should be expected to always supply and maintain so always work.

After all that is how "Einstein" adverts sell tge benefits of smart meters to the masses.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein 

Scot_39

A good quote to go with those awful adverts.

Qyburn

The IHD really should be part of the service, maintained by the supplier. Or not supplied at all.

moneysaver

Scot_39 said:

moneysaver said:

Why is there no mention in the news(or Martin getting on to this scandal) that a gas smart meter works on an internal battery & everyone with this type of meter is going to experience failure at sometime.(approx 10yrs)

 About 5yrs ago when my gas meter's internal battery was getting near to depleting my readings went crazy, some days it was registering 100's of units other days it was normal readings. It took me 6mths to convince my supplier the meter was giving false readings. The meter got taken away for a "check" and I eventually got the meter changed but it took me a year to sort out the usage as the supplier had to estimate all my usage from when I noticed the fault. They eventually based it on my previous years of usage. I am not conviced it was financially fair for me but this was the only option.

When I asked about what happens to the old meter they said it gets thrown away.( lots of gas meters going to landfill) Why can these meters not get a battery that can be changed by a qualified engineer?

Moneysaver

Many modern electric meters only have 10 yr certified lifespans too.

Any 2g/3g comms hubs fitted in the last 2 years even less as all will need replacing by 2033 and the telefonica (02 parent) 2G signal goes, just as 3g already has or is going soon. 
Mobiles already on 5g in much of uk, technology changes , things move on.

Some old analogue electric had 40 yrs - and suppliers appeared in no rush to replace them at that precise boundary. 4x longer than many modern meters.  The phrase built-in obsolescence used to be common for this trend in past.
  
The real cost of smart meter hardware vs old meter isn't just in the initial roll out to our homes  - its in the ongoing regular replacement cycle.

Good information and it seems like this smart meter push is costing a fortune as well as a lot of used meters going to landfill after only 10yrs.

So glad you never picked up on my bad use of English.

Moneysaver

MattMattMattUK

moneysaver said:

Scot_39 said:

moneysaver said:

Why is there no mention in the news(or Martin getting on to this scandal) that a gas smart meter works on an internal battery & everyone with this type of meter is going to experience failure at sometime.(approx 10yrs)

 About 5yrs ago when my gas meter's internal battery was getting near to depleting my readings went crazy, some days it was registering 100's of units other days it was normal readings. It took me 6mths to convince my supplier the meter was giving false readings. The meter got taken away for a "check" and I eventually got the meter changed but it took me a year to sort out the usage as the supplier had to estimate all my usage from when I noticed the fault. They eventually based it on my previous years of usage. I am not conviced it was financially fair for me but this was the only option.

When I asked about what happens to the old meter they said it gets thrown away.( lots of gas meters going to landfill) Why can these meters not get a battery that can be changed by a qualified engineer?

Moneysaver

Many modern electric meters only have 10 yr certified lifespans too.

Any 2g/3g comms hubs fitted in the last 2 years even less as all will need replacing by 2033 and the telefonica (02 parent) 2G signal goes, just as 3g already has or is going soon. 
Mobiles already on 5g in much of uk, technology changes , things move on.

Some old analogue electric had 40 yrs - and suppliers appeared in no rush to replace them at that precise boundary. 4x longer than many modern meters.  The phrase built-in obsolescence used to be common for this trend in past.
  
The real cost of smart meter hardware vs old meter isn't just in the initial roll out to our homes  - its in the ongoing regular replacement cycle.

Good information and it seems like this smart meter push is costing a fortune as well as a lot of used meters going to landfill after only 10yrs.

So glad you never picked up on my bad use of English.

Moneysaver

They will not go to landfill, there is already a recycling program in place for all energy meters. 

For smart electricity meters the meter's lifespan is estimated at twenty years, the same as a dumb meter, though as Scot points out some early comes hubs will need replacing sooner. For gas meters they are engineers for twenty years but depending on location the battery I side them may fail after as little as five years, though current estimates for most are 12-14 years. It was a fundamental design flaw in the spec demanded by the government that makes battery replacement difficult and lacking redundancy, which would have saved money overall, but increased the cost of the unit 34p at point of purchase.

The "meter push" is actually not that much more expensive than the ongoing cost of meter replacement anyway, the units themselves are again only about 20% higher than a dumb meter, the majority of the cost in a meter replacement is the engineer's time. The setting up of thr network and that cost is not insignificant, but also cheaper than the teams of meter readers. Overall though it was all about grid modernisation, enabling ToU tariffs to take better use of renewable generation, active monitoring of the grid as a whole to dynamically manage things better, etc.

QrizB

MattMattMattUK said:

moneysaver said:

Good information and it seems like this smart meter push is costing a fortune as well as a lot of used meters going to landfill after only 10yrs.

They will not go to landfill, there is already a recycling program in place for all energy meters. 

Matt will know this already, but for anyone else: as a general rule, WEEE doesn't go to landfill. Producers are required to recycle it.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/regulations-waste-electrical-and-electronic-equipment

mmmmikey

Also worth noting that smart meters don't have a fixed certification date and will be potentially kept in service for longer than the meters they replace. The new process involves testing a sample of each model periodically - annually IIRC - and if they are becoming inaccurate then that model will be replaced.

The design allows for the communication hub to be replaced independently from the meter if needed reducing the need for meter swap outs.

And unlike the old world where you needed a special meter for certain tariffs there are now only two types, again reducing the need for swap outs.

So progress in many areas that should offset any short term waste from swapping out otherwise good meters that have yet to reach end of their certified life.