MSE News: Faulty smart meters to be tackled and automatic compensation paid for problems

powerful_Rogue

PegasusPJ said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Thinking of the smart meter rollout I think it is also time to introduce a stick, any one who refuses to have a smart meter installed faces a 20% surcharge on their energy bill, we could call it "Idiot tax", increasing another 20% each year they continue to refuse to have a smart meter installed. 

a smart meter has no benefit whatsoever to the customer if you are not on a tariff that uses it to give you discount (only dumb people need one to tell them that having aomething running uses energy).

There are also privacy issues (the meter might not get hacked, but the data held by the supplier from it certainly  can and i don't want anyone able to tell remotely if I am home).

And that is before we get to the problems and cost of the ones not working, or people forced onto prepay without notice.

I got a water meter installed as soon as I bought my house, because it saves me (though supposedly it was readable from outside, which ended up being a lie).

my recently switched to energy supplier keeps on trying to force me a smart meter by emailing me pretending my gas meter, that was already not new when I moved in 14 years ago, suddenly is 'unsafe' the minute I switched to them
this is clearly a lie .. I keep ignoring them, and if they manage to force it on me, I will not only require it dumb (or put in dumb mode), but will do all I can to make sure it cannot communicate (so they can't switch it to anything smart without my consent).

it is not dumb to want control of your data. avoiding submitting a reading once a month is not worth it.

Sorry, but a lot of that is nonsense.

Why would someone hack the DDC to get data to see whether people are at home? Don't you think there are much easier ways of seeing whether someone is home or not?

People aren't forced onto prepayment meters. It takes a lot of time, communication and a court order. If you pay your energy bills, why would this even be a worry?

How do you know your gas meter isn't end of life? There is also no such thing as dumb mode. It might not communicate the readings, but it's still connected to the network to receive updates etc.

PegasusPJ

powerful_Rogue said:

PegasusPJ said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Thinking of the smart meter rollout I think it is also time to introduce a stick, any one who refuses to have a smart meter installed faces a 20% surcharge on their energy bill, we could call it "Idiot tax", increasing another 20% each year they continue to refuse to have a smart meter installed. 

a smart meter has no benefit whatsoever to the customer if you are not on a tariff that uses it to give you discount (only dumb people need one to tell them that having aomething running uses energy).

There are also privacy issues (the meter might not get hacked, but the data held by the supplier from it certainly  can and i don't want anyone able to tell remotely if I am home).

And that is before we get to the problems and cost of the ones not working, or people forced onto prepay without notice.

I got a water meter installed as soon as I bought my house, because it saves me (though supposedly it was readable from outside, which ended up being a lie).

my recently switched to energy supplier keeps on trying to force me a smart meter by emailing me pretending my gas meter, that was already not new when I moved in 14 years ago, suddenly is 'unsafe' the minute I switched to them
this is clearly a lie .. I keep ignoring them, and if they manage to force it on me, I will not only require it dumb (or put in dumb mode), but will do all I can to make sure it cannot communicate (so they can't switch it to anything smart without my consent).

it is not dumb to want control of your data. avoiding submitting a reading once a month is not worth it.

Sorry, but a lot of that is nonsense.

Why would someone hack the DDC to get data to see whether people are at home? Don't you think there are much easier ways of seeing whether someone is home or not?

People aren't forced onto prepayment meters. It takes a lot of time, communication and a court order. If you pay your energy bills, why would this even be a worry?

How do you know your gas meter isn't end of life? There is also no such thing as dumb mode. It might not communicate the readings, but it's still connected to the network to receive updates etc.

it is well documented, including on this site, people have been switched to prepay without consent or warning, without court order.
this shows how easily it allows supplier to make changes, which they may decide to do even if you are paying but their records go wrong (again, well documented).

'end of life' does not mean unsafe despite their scare tactic, and it had probably passed it before I even moved there, and yet 3 previous suppliers said nothing, which shows it is not really a problem.
the very fact they are using this underhand method to try to force it on me shows why they can't be trusted.

and the fact there are not properly dumb even on dumb mode is why I don't want one at all. that should be my choice as long as i pay my bills.

Qyburn

PegasusPJ said:

'end of life' does not mean unsafe despite their scare tactic, 

"End of life" means no longer legal for the supplier to use. If you won't let them replace it, they'll be required to cut off the supply.

GingerTim

that should be my choice as long as i pay my bills.

That might be the case if it was your meter - but it doesnt belong to you.

MattMattMattUK

PegasusPJ said:

powerful_Rogue said:

PegasusPJ said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Thinking of the smart meter rollout I think it is also time to introduce a stick, any one who refuses to have a smart meter installed faces a 20% surcharge on their energy bill, we could call it "Idiot tax", increasing another 20% each year they continue to refuse to have a smart meter installed. 

a smart meter has no benefit whatsoever to the customer if you are not on a tariff that uses it to give you discount (only dumb people need one to tell them that having aomething running uses energy).

There are also privacy issues (the meter might not get hacked, but the data held by the supplier from it certainly  can and i don't want anyone able to tell remotely if I am home).

And that is before we get to the problems and cost of the ones not working, or people forced onto prepay without notice.

I got a water meter installed as soon as I bought my house, because it saves me (though supposedly it was readable from outside, which ended up being a lie).

my recently switched to energy supplier keeps on trying to force me a smart meter by emailing me pretending my gas meter, that was already not new when I moved in 14 years ago, suddenly is 'unsafe' the minute I switched to them
this is clearly a lie .. I keep ignoring them, and if they manage to force it on me, I will not only require it dumb (or put in dumb mode), but will do all I can to make sure it cannot communicate (so they can't switch it to anything smart without my consent).

it is not dumb to want control of your data. avoiding submitting a reading once a month is not worth it.

Sorry, but a lot of that is nonsense.

Why would someone hack the DDC to get data to see whether people are at home? Don't you think there are much easier ways of seeing whether someone is home or not?

People aren't forced onto prepayment meters. It takes a lot of time, communication and a court order. If you pay your energy bills, why would this even be a worry?

How do you know your gas meter isn't end of life? There is also no such thing as dumb mode. It might not communicate the readings, but it's still connected to the network to receive updates etc.

it is well documented, including on this site, people have been switched to prepay without consent or warning, without court order.
this shows how easily it allows supplier to make changes, which they may decide to do even if you are paying but their records go wrong (again, well documented).

'end of life' does not mean unsafe despite their scare tactic, and it had probably passed it before I even moved there, and yet 3 previous suppliers said nothing, which shows it is not really a problem.
the very fact they are using this underhand method to try to force it on me shows why they can't be trusted.

and the fact there are not properly dumb even on dumb mode is why I don't want one at all. that should be my choice as long as i pay my bills.

It is not. There are lots of cases of people being switched to pre-pay against their will, but ultimately that was after months or years of refusing to engage with suppliers about debt. The reason those people initially complain about there being no court order is because they also ignored that process as well. 

powerful_Rogue

PegasusPJ said:

powerful_Rogue said:

PegasusPJ said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Thinking of the smart meter rollout I think it is also time to introduce a stick, any one who refuses to have a smart meter installed faces a 20% surcharge on their energy bill, we could call it "Idiot tax", increasing another 20% each year they continue to refuse to have a smart meter installed. 

a smart meter has no benefit whatsoever to the customer if you are not on a tariff that uses it to give you discount (only dumb people need one to tell them that having aomething running uses energy).

There are also privacy issues (the meter might not get hacked, but the data held by the supplier from it certainly  can and i don't want anyone able to tell remotely if I am home).

And that is before we get to the problems and cost of the ones not working, or people forced onto prepay without notice.

I got a water meter installed as soon as I bought my house, because it saves me (though supposedly it was readable from outside, which ended up being a lie).

my recently switched to energy supplier keeps on trying to force me a smart meter by emailing me pretending my gas meter, that was already not new when I moved in 14 years ago, suddenly is 'unsafe' the minute I switched to them
this is clearly a lie .. I keep ignoring them, and if they manage to force it on me, I will not only require it dumb (or put in dumb mode), but will do all I can to make sure it cannot communicate (so they can't switch it to anything smart without my consent).

it is not dumb to want control of your data. avoiding submitting a reading once a month is not worth it.

Sorry, but a lot of that is nonsense.

Why would someone hack the DDC to get data to see whether people are at home? Don't you think there are much easier ways of seeing whether someone is home or not?

People aren't forced onto prepayment meters. It takes a lot of time, communication and a court order. If you pay your energy bills, why would this even be a worry?

How do you know your gas meter isn't end of life? There is also no such thing as dumb mode. It might not communicate the readings, but it's still connected to the network to receive updates etc.

it is well documented, including on this site, people have been switched to prepay without consent or warning, without court order.
this shows how easily it allows supplier to make changes, which they may decide to do even if you are paying but their records go wrong (again, well documented).

'end of life' does not mean unsafe despite their scare tactic, and it had probably passed it before I even moved there, and yet 3 previous suppliers said nothing, which shows it is not really a problem.
the very fact they are using this underhand method to try to force it on me shows why they can't be trusted.

and the fact there are not properly dumb even on dumb mode is why I don't want one at all. that should be my choice as long as i pay my bills.

Sorry, I call nonsense again. If it's well documented, show me some evidence of it, as i've certainly not seen it on this site.

As already pointed out, it's not your meter. Maybe you should consider going off grid.

moneysaver

Why is there no mention in the news(or Martin getting on to this scandal) that a gas smart meter works on an internal battery & everyone with this type of meter is going to experience failure at sometime.(approx 10yrs)

 About 5yrs ago when my gas meter's internal battery was getting near to depleting my readings went crazy, some days it was registering 100's of units other days it was normal readings. It took me 6mths to convince my supplier the meter was giving false readings. The meter got taken away for a "check" and I eventually got the meter changed but it took me a year to sort out the usage as the supplier had to estimate all my usage from when I noticed the fault. They eventually based it on my previous years of usage. I am not conviced it was financially fair for me but this was the only option.

When I asked about what happens to the old meter they said it gets thrown away.( lots of gas meters going to landfill) Why can these meters not get a battery that can be changed by a qualified engineer?

Moneysaver

mmmmikey

PegasusPJ said:

'end of life' does not mean unsafe

Yes, that's correct - it's best to replace the meter before it becomes unsafe

QrizB

moneysaver said:

Why is there no mention in the news(or Martin getting on to this scandal) that a gas smart meter works on an internal battery & everyone with this type of meter is going to experience failure at sometime.(approx 10yrs)

Scandal?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

moneysaver said:

About 5yrs ago when my gas meter's internal battery was getting near to depleting my readings went crazy, some days it was registering 100's of units other days it was normal readings. It took me 6mths to convince my supplier the meter was giving false readings. The meter got taken away for a "check" and I eventually got the meter changed but it took me a year to sort out the usage as the supplier had to estimate all my usage from when I noticed the fault.

There was one model of dumb gas meter that was prone to that failure mode. @MeteredOut has a thread about his experience with one.

Most gas meters just stop recording when the battery goes flat. Sometimes they shut off the gas automatically, most times they let it flow.

moneysaver said:

When I asked about what happens to the old meter they said it gets thrown away.( lots of gas meters going to landfill) Why can these meters not get a battery that can be changed by a qualified engineer?

You'll have to ask the government, who wrote the spec for smart gas meters.

Scot_39

moneysaver said:

Why is there no mention in the news(or Martin getting on to this scandal) that a gas smart meter works on an internal battery & everyone with this type of meter is going to experience failure at sometime.(approx 10yrs)

 About 5yrs ago when my gas meter's internal battery was getting near to depleting my readings went crazy, some days it was registering 100's of units other days it was normal readings. It took me 6mths to convince my supplier the meter was giving false readings. The meter got taken away for a "check" and I eventually got the meter changed but it took me a year to sort out the usage as the supplier had to estimate all my usage from when I noticed the fault. They eventually based it on my previous years of usage. I am not conviced it was financially fair for me but this was the only option.

When I asked about what happens to the old meter they said it gets thrown away.( lots of gas meters going to landfill) Why can these meters not get a battery that can be changed by a qualified engineer?

Moneysaver

Many modern electric meters only have 10 yr certified lifespans too.

Any 2g/3g comms hubs fitted in the last 2 years even less as all will need replacing by 2033 and the telefonica (02 parent) 2G signal goes, just as 3g already has or is going soon. 
Mobiles already on 5g in much of uk, technology changes , things move on.

Some old analogue electric had 40 yrs - and suppliers appeared in no rush to replace them at that precise boundary. 4x longer than many modern meters.  The phrase built-in obsolescence used to be common for this trend in past.
  
The real cost of smart meter hardware vs old meter isn't just in the initial roll out to our homes  - its in the ongoing regular replacement cycle.