P&O

zagfles

eskbanker said:

As above, the issue is less about the technical implementation of passport-checking logic, which isn't particularly complex for UK passport holders visiting the EU, but blurring responsibility and liability, so I'm not sure that any travel companies offer such validation as part of their processes for capturing advance passenger information?*

TUI do publish a passport checker page, but only as a standalone entity rather than being integrated into the main booking management processes.


* Edit: apparently there is at least one, as below!

The validation doesn't have to guarantee the passport is valid, just give a warning if it definitely isn't (or probably isn't). Responsibility still on the customer, but a helpful warning where necessary. 

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

As above, the issue is less about the technical implementation of passport-checking logic, which isn't particularly complex for UK passport holders visiting the EU, but blurring responsibility and liability, so I'm not sure that any travel companies offer such validation as part of their processes for capturing advance passenger information?*

TUI do publish a passport checker page, but only as a standalone entity rather than being integrated into the main booking management processes.


* Edit: apparently there is at least one, as below!

The validation doesn't have to guarantee the passport is valid, just give a warning if it definitely isn't (or probably isn't). Responsibility still on the customer, but a helpful warning where necessary. 

"We'll tell you if your passport might not be valid but won't confirm that it is" would be quite a fudge though, arguably a more complex proposition than a simple clean "it's up to you to check".

zagfles

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

As above, the issue is less about the technical implementation of passport-checking logic, which isn't particularly complex for UK passport holders visiting the EU, but blurring responsibility and liability, so I'm not sure that any travel companies offer such validation as part of their processes for capturing advance passenger information?*

TUI do publish a passport checker page, but only as a standalone entity rather than being integrated into the main booking management processes.


* Edit: apparently there is at least one, as below!

The validation doesn't have to guarantee the passport is valid, just give a warning if it definitely isn't (or probably isn't). Responsibility still on the customer, but a helpful warning where necessary. 

"We'll tell you if your passport might not be valid but won't confirm that it is" would be quite a fudge though, arguably a more complex proposition than a simple clean "it's up to you to check".

They don't need to say that. They don't need to say anything, other than detect when there's a problem and warn. This doesn't take away any responsibility on the customer, just like TUI's passport checker, or loads of other tour operators who have advice about passport validity. It's not a liability shift, otherwise no operators would give ANY passport advice. 

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

As above, the issue is less about the technical implementation of passport-checking logic, which isn't particularly complex for UK passport holders visiting the EU, but blurring responsibility and liability, so I'm not sure that any travel companies offer such validation as part of their processes for capturing advance passenger information?*

TUI do publish a passport checker page, but only as a standalone entity rather than being integrated into the main booking management processes.


* Edit: apparently there is at least one, as below!

The validation doesn't have to guarantee the passport is valid, just give a warning if it definitely isn't (or probably isn't). Responsibility still on the customer, but a helpful warning where necessary. 

"We'll tell you if your passport might not be valid but won't confirm that it is" would be quite a fudge though, arguably a more complex proposition than a simple clean "it's up to you to check".

They don't need to say that. They don't need to say anything, other than detect when there's a problem and warn. This doesn't take away any responsibility on the customer, just like TUI's passport checker, or loads of other tour operators who have advice about passport validity. It's not a liability shift, otherwise no operators would give ANY passport advice. 

Yes, I wasn't suggesting they literally publish those words, but obviously anyone keying in multiple passports and seeing one rejected could legitimately interpret silence for the others as acceptance, so I can see why companies choose to keep things clear and simple, even though it's also legitimate to see this as not being particularly customer-friendly.

zagfles

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

As above, the issue is less about the technical implementation of passport-checking logic, which isn't particularly complex for UK passport holders visiting the EU, but blurring responsibility and liability, so I'm not sure that any travel companies offer such validation as part of their processes for capturing advance passenger information?*

TUI do publish a passport checker page, but only as a standalone entity rather than being integrated into the main booking management processes.


* Edit: apparently there is at least one, as below!

The validation doesn't have to guarantee the passport is valid, just give a warning if it definitely isn't (or probably isn't). Responsibility still on the customer, but a helpful warning where necessary. 

"We'll tell you if your passport might not be valid but won't confirm that it is" would be quite a fudge though, arguably a more complex proposition than a simple clean "it's up to you to check".

They don't need to say that. They don't need to say anything, other than detect when there's a problem and warn. This doesn't take away any responsibility on the customer, just like TUI's passport checker, or loads of other tour operators who have advice about passport validity. It's not a liability shift, otherwise no operators would give ANY passport advice. 

Yes, I wasn't suggesting they literally publish those words, but obviously anyone keying in multiple passports and seeing one rejected could legitimately interpret silence for the others as acceptance, so I can see why companies choose to keep things clear and simple, even though it's also legitimate to see this as not being particularly customer-friendly.

They detect what they can detect. It's blatantly obvious they won't be able to detect every passport problem just from numbers and dates keyed in. It's P&O themselves who determine the passport validity, you don't usually go through immigration when on a cruise, unlike for instance on a flight. Checkin is the obvious time to reject where possible, not boarding. Boarding may be reject for other reasons, eg dog chewed passport. 

This drivel of "we mustn't warn of a blatantly obvious issue like >10 years from issue because it might mean some idiot thinks that a dog chewed passport will be ok" is similar to things like doctors being scared of helping people in the street in case they do something wrong and get sued so instead they walk on by and leave people to die. 

TUI give passport advice. As they should. They don't seem to be scared. As most doctors will help people on the street. Despite people whispering FUD in their ear like "but there could be bad consequences from you trying to save a life"

eskbanker

Well yes, there are any number of reasons why passports may be invalid, so the definitive check will always be at the point of boarding.

Returning to OP's question though ("Do P&O not have a duty of care, re the information they insist we must give them weeks before the cruise starts"), the answer to that remains 'no', however helpful it might be if they chose to provide such validation services.

zagfles

eskbanker said:

Well yes, there are any number of reasons why passports may be invalid, so the definitive check will always be at the point of boarding.

Returning to OP's question though ("Do P&O not have a duty of care, re the information they insist we must give them weeks before the cruise starts"), the answer to that remains 'no', however helpful it might be if they chose to provide such validation services.

Of course they have a duty of care. If they ask for information that they KNOW will cause a problem boarding then they should warn about it. But carry on replying, I've had enough, I've not told you might get RSI. Bye. 

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Well yes, there are any number of reasons why passports may be invalid, so the definitive check will always be at the point of boarding.

Returning to OP's question though ("Do P&O not have a duty of care, re the information they insist we must give them weeks before the cruise starts"), the answer to that remains 'no', however helpful it might be if they chose to provide such validation services.

Of course they have a duty of care. If they ask for information that they KNOW will cause a problem boarding then they should warn about it. But carry on replying, I've had enough, I've not told you might get RSI. Bye. 

Appreciate you don't wish to continue the conversation but for the avoidance of doubt, I'm seeing 'duty of care' in the sense of whether there's any specific legal or regulatory requirement for them to validate supplied data at the point of entry, rather than whether this might be considered good practice, etc.

maman

The current situation is that P&0 don't check the information given in advance so that's why OP was turned away.

Whether they could check is another question. I'd have thought they could introduce an algorithm that could check when inputting information and produce a warning message. 

Incidentally, many different nationalities board cruise ships out of Southampton. Many visitors fly over, visit the UK and then do a European or Baltic cruise and then fly home. Many Americans fly one way and cruise the other. 

eskbanker

maman said:

The current situation is that P&0 don't check the information given in advance so that's why OP was turned away.

Whether they could check is another question. I'd have thought they could introduce an algorithm that could check when inputting information and produce a warning message.

They undoubtedly could check, but whether they should is yet another question!