Dropped kerb / driveway contractor - contract?

Section62

districtnine said:

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

I’m in agreement with @Section62.

No council can force you to use the same contractor for both jobs. If you feel happy to use him for the crossover and the council have approved him then go ahead. If there were to be any problems with that part of the work then it’s on council land, not yours.

Equally you could find another contractor and that might be a better route.

Your driveway is completely different. If it were me I would 100% want a quote. Without one there is no evidence of what he agreed to deliver at what price or what you agreed to pay for. If there was any kind of problem then you would be left high and dry.

Thanks - I agree with all of this - including 'another contractor'. Not sure sacking him from driveway would make us confident about the drop kerb job he'd do - even if he agreed to still do it.

The dropped kerb and crossover are the council's problem if the contractor doesn't do what they should.

Being a "council-approved contractor" means they have done the checks they need to do, and the contractor risks being removed from the approved list if they do a bad job in the highway.

districtnine

prowla said:

Who is your contract with and who will you be paying?

I wouldn't authorise starting the work without a written quote.

It's possible the contractor is doing some VAT and/or warranty shennanigans.

What do they say about (and have they checked for) cables running under the driveway area?

The contract is with the contractor - the council require one to be used from their approved list, but don't do the work or provide a contractor themselves. So it's the contractor who I'm paying.

Concern about the lack of written quote was one of the reasons for posting here, and after all that has been said here, I won't be doing that. Yes - I think he may see us as people who won't be able to push back, and who he can therefore play games with over quotes and things for tax and guarantee purposes - making it difficult to come back to him afterwards. That doesn't make me feel good either.

The contractor only came up when the application was made, in May. He only looked at measurements of the area, and discussed surface material and driveway border. When I asked about aspects of the driveway such as soakage or drainage, he was dismissive and said he had been doing the job a long time and knew what he was doing.

districtnine

Section62 said:

The dropped kerb and crossover are the council's problem if the contractor doesn't do what they should.

Being a "council-approved contractor" means they have done the checks they need to do, and the contractor risks being removed from the approved list if they do a bad job in the highway.

Thanks - I've just drafted out a letter to contractor asking for the date the kerb will be dropped (the Highways must have 1 week's notice of the start date, meaning there's just a 16 day window for it to be done), and withdrawing the offer for him to do the driveway. 

And if he wants to drop out of doing the kerb + crossover as well he needs to let me know by next Friday, so I can tell the Highways people. 

I'm going to write to them anyway, to ask about a possible extension given the current scenario, so they will know what has been going on. Whether they will care might be another matter...

Thanks for all the feedback - I really appreciate it.

prowla

districtnine said:

prowla said:

Who is your contract with and who will you be paying?

I wouldn't authorise starting the work without a written quote.

It's possible the contractor is doing some VAT and/or warranty shennanigans.

What do they say about (and have they checked for) cables running under the driveway area?

The contract is with the contractor - the council require one to be used from their approved list, but don't do the work or provide a contractor themselves. So it's the contractor who I'm paying.

Concern about the lack of written quote was one of the reasons for posting here, and after all that has been said here, I won't be doing that. Yes - I think he may see us as people who won't be able to push back, and who he can therefore play games with over quotes and things for tax and guarantee purposes - making it difficult to come back to him afterwards. That doesn't make me feel good either.

The contractor only came up when the application was made, in May. He only looked at measurements of the area, and discussed surface material and driveway border. When I asked about aspects of the driveway such as soakage or drainage, he was dismissive and said he had been doing the job a long time and knew what he was doing.

Yep - I think splitting the two is the way to go; muddling the responsibilities just allows potential for who/what/when issues.

Regardless whoever does the dropped kerb, I'd suggest making sure that they put it where you want, take photos of plans, etc., plus be there when they come to do the work to be sure they do as agreed.

FYI, I'm intending to have one done and this thread has provided some thought for me to bear in mind, so thanks for that (OP and folks!).

Section62

prowla said:

districtnine said:

prowla said:

Who is your contract with and who will you be paying?

I wouldn't authorise starting the work without a written quote.

It's possible the contractor is doing some VAT and/or warranty shennanigans.

What do they say about (and have they checked for) cables running under the driveway area?

The contract is with the contractor - the council require one to be used from their approved list, but don't do the work or provide a contractor themselves. So it's the contractor who I'm paying.

Concern about the lack of written quote was one of the reasons for posting here, and after all that has been said here, I won't be doing that. Yes - I think he may see us as people who won't be able to push back, and who he can therefore play games with over quotes and things for tax and guarantee purposes - making it difficult to come back to him afterwards. That doesn't make me feel good either.

The contractor only came up when the application was made, in May. He only looked at measurements of the area, and discussed surface material and driveway border. When I asked about aspects of the driveway such as soakage or drainage, he was dismissive and said he had been doing the job a long time and knew what he was doing.

Yep - I think splitting the two is the way to go; muddling the responsibilities just allows potential for who/what/when issues.

Regardless whoever does the dropped kerb, I'd suggest making sure that they put it where you want, take photos of plans, etc., plus be there when they come to do the work to be sure they do as agreed.

FYI, I'm intending to have one done and this thread has provided some thought for me to bear in mind, so thanks for that (OP and folks!).

Usually it is someone from the highways authority that decide the exact position of the dropped kerb - this is partly why they charge a fee, to pay for a site visit to determine where the crossover can be, in accordance with their policy.  This might be why they want a week's notice, unless they have delegated the decision making to the contractor.

The decision where the crossover goes is partly driven by the presence of underground/overground utilities - either the highways authority or the contractor should be checking for these and marking the area with temporary paint to show locations.  Personally I'd make sure it was clear that the highway authority/contractor were ultimately responsible for the exact position of the crossover (my input would only be if it was very wrong) so to avoid any question of liability if the contractor damages utility equipment.

districtnine

prowla said:

Yep - I think splitting the two is the way to go; muddling the responsibilities just allows potential for who/what/when issues.

Regardless whoever does the dropped kerb, I'd suggest making sure that they put it where you want, take photos of plans, etc., plus be there when they come to do the work to be sure they do as agreed.

FYI, I'm intending to have one done and this thread has provided some thought for me to bear in mind, so thanks for that (OP and folks!).

Thanks, prowla - the intended dropped kerb is a short piece of pavement between two driveways and other dropped kerbs, and all of that short section is to be dropped. So there are no questions over where it should be.

Am I supposed to expect plans relating to the dropped kerb/crossover? I have lots of photos showing position, precise measurements etc - these were submitted to the local council and then to the Highways dept for the separate applications made to them. Does he need to produce other plans, for eg showing what will be done under the surface? Do I need to see other plans?

My concern about the current contractor doing this work was more about what might go on underneath the crossover if he were of a mind to cut corners or whatever; but several people on this thread have mentioned that he would be answerable to the council for anything amiss there. 

Of course I have similar concerns about the driveway, which is why I no longer want him to do that work. The problem with all of this type of work is it gets covered up, and there's no way of knowing what has been done. We have indeed intended to be present while the work was being done, and one of the problems with the contractor refusing to provide dates has been planning for that to happen.

I'm glad the thread has been useful - yes, I've learned a lot more about this topic now as well. It will be a couple of months wasted of having gone down the current route for that time; but that may be a worthwhile cost in trying to ensure the job is done properly.

districtnine

Section62 said:

Usually it is someone from the highways authority that decide the exact position of the dropped kerb - this is partly why they charge a fee, to pay for a site visit to determine where the crossover can be, in accordance with their policy.  This might be why they want a week's notice, unless they have delegated the decision making to the contractor.

The decision where the crossover goes is partly driven by the presence of underground/overground utilities - either the highways authority or the contractor should be checking for these and marking the area with temporary paint to show locations.  Personally I'd make sure it was clear that the highway authority/contractor were ultimately responsible for the exact position of the crossover (my input would only be if it was very wrong) so to avoid any question of liability if the contractor damages utility equipment.

The dropped kerb will be a short section of pavement between two driveways and existing dropped kerbs on either side. So there isn't any doubt as to where the kerb dropping will be. The one week notice period of the work commencing is, so the Highways dept say, is so that someone from there can come along at some point while the work is being carried out, to look at how it is being carried out and see that it is being done to the level they require. They approved the work on the basis of photos of kerb, pavement, property frontage (a lawn at present) etc. They didn't visit at all. There is no street furniture on the surface of the pavement, and where the driveway will go is all a lawn; so until it's all dug into, I guess no one will know what might be there underneath, and where. 

The question of liability if the contractor damages utility equipment sounds like something I need to ask Highways about. If any falls on myself then I'm thinking I should probably get a different contractor for the dropped kerb / crossover as well.

moonpenny

I applied to the local council a few years ago for a dropped kerb and it was the council who sorted where any utilities/services were and provided me with 4 or 5 ?named contractors to do the job.

I had to choose one of their contractors and couldn't employ my own.
I can't remember if they gave me a price or not but, I knew that they were quite a bit more expensive than getting my own to do the work.

My point being that there is no way I would employ a Council contractor (unless hired as a private job) to do my drive just on cost alone let alone the issues on no plan of works that have been voiced.

Section62

districtnine said:

Section62 said:

Usually it is someone from the highways authority that decide the exact position of the dropped kerb - this is partly why they charge a fee, to pay for a site visit to determine where the crossover can be, in accordance with their policy.  This might be why they want a week's notice, unless they have delegated the decision making to the contractor.

The decision where the crossover goes is partly driven by the presence of underground/overground utilities - either the highways authority or the contractor should be checking for these and marking the area with temporary paint to show locations.  Personally I'd make sure it was clear that the highway authority/contractor were ultimately responsible for the exact position of the crossover (my input would only be if it was very wrong) so to avoid any question of liability if the contractor damages utility equipment.

The dropped kerb will be a short section of pavement between two driveways and existing dropped kerbs on either side. So there isn't any doubt as to where the kerb dropping will be. The one week notice period of the work commencing is, so the Highways dept say, is so that someone from there can come along at some point while the work is being carried out, to look at how it is being carried out and see that it is being done to the level they require. They approved the work on the basis of photos of kerb, pavement, property frontage (a lawn at present) etc. They didn't visit at all. There is no street furniture on the surface of the pavement, and where the driveway will go is all a lawn; so until it's all dug into, I guess no one will know what might be there underneath, and where. 

The question of liability if the contractor damages utility equipment sounds like something I need to ask Highways about. If any falls on myself then I'm thinking I should probably get a different contractor for the dropped kerb / crossover as well.

With the additional information in that post I don't think you need to be concerned.

The potential issue was about who the client is - and the extent to which the client was liable if something went wrong.  If you are both paying directly for the work and deciding exactly what the work involves then it may look like you are the client.

But since there isn't a question about exactly where the crossover goes, and because the highways department have seen pictures and given their approval, you can argue your decision making input into the process is minimal.  It is for the qualified people working for the highways authority to make the decisions, not you.

districtnine

Section62 said:

With the additional information in that post I don't think you need to be concerned.

The potential issue was about who the client is - and the extent to which the client was liable if something went wrong.  If you are both paying directly for the work and deciding exactly what the work involves then it may look like you are the client.

But since there isn't a question about exactly where the crossover goes, and because the highways department have seen pictures and given their approval, you can argue your decision making input into the process is minimal.  It is for the qualified people working for the highways authority to make the decisions, not you.

The letter from Highways giving approval was as follows:

"With reference to your application dated 9 May, I have no objections to you carrying out the construction of the vehicular access, within highway limits, subject to the work being undertaken by the contractor stated on your application and in accordance with the Specification for Vehicular Crossing. Please ensure your Contractor xxxxxxxx is aware of the Specification which was included in your original application pack.

It is a condition of acceptance that you inform me at least one week in advance of the work in the highway commencing so that we may inspect the works whilst they are in progress. If you fail to give the required notice such that inspection cannot be made, I may investigate the adequacy of the work done by trial hole or coring, the cost of which will be recharged to you. You will also be responsible for any work found to be necessary to meet the Specification.

You must also inform me when the works are completed. The attached form is provided for this purpose.
It is also a condition of acceptance, that the work in the highway should be completed within three months from the date of acceptance, otherwise further permission must be sought from this office to carry out the works in the highway."

I assume the 'specification' was the photos and measurements showing the current pavement and front of my property, and measurements there. It mentioned there was no visible street furniture except a street light at the corner of the property, just beyond where next door's dropped kerb begins, which is clear in the photos.