Dropped kerb / driveway contractor - contract?

districtnine

The council-approved contractor set to drop kerb and create driveway at the front of our house has given a final cost figure for each in a text message, but says nothing else is needed and won't put anything else in writing. 

Am I right in thinking there needs to be a contract which details various things about the jobs? 

I also can't get any dates off him as to when he is thinking of doing it. Just a 'guarantee' it will be done by the end of the 3 month period in which the dropped kerb work has to have been completed. There's about a month left and I've done a lot of asking. The council have to be given at least a week's notice of the dropped kerb work starting, so there's a 3 week window left.

He has a good reputation for his work locally, so far as I can tell - he was recommended by another contractor unable to do the work due to illness; and the council have said they have had no complaints about him - in fact they were surprised to hear my querying him with them.

I have no experience of dropped kerb / driveway work and I'd be interested to hear thoughts of others on this. Thanks.

Section62

districtnine said:

The council-approved contractor set to drop kerb and create driveway at the front of our house has given a final cost figure for each in a text message, but says nothing else is needed and won't put anything else in writing. 

Am I right in thinking there needs to be a contract which details various things about the jobs? 

I also can't get any dates off him as to when he is thinking of doing it. Just a 'guarantee' it will be done by the end of the 3 month period in which the dropped kerb work has to have been completed. There's about a month left and I've done a lot of asking. The council have to be given at least a week's notice of the dropped kerb work starting, so there's a 3 week window left.

He has a good reputation for his work locally, so far as I can tell - he was recommended by another contractor unable to do the work due to illness; and the council have said they have had no complaints about him - in fact they were surprised to hear my querying him with them.

I have no experience of dropped kerb / driveway work and I'd be interested to hear thoughts of others on this. Thanks.

Is the "driveway" on your own land, or do you mean the crossover which is all on highway land?

If all the work the contractor is doing is on highway then you may be Ok just accepting the quote - if the work is defective the council will do something about it.

If the work is on your land you'll want something more than just a total cost.  At the minimum you want a specification - e.g. the depth they will dig out to, how thick each layer of what material will be.

districtnine

Section62 said:

Is the "driveway" on your own land, or do you mean the crossover which is all on highway land?

If all the work the contractor is doing is on highway then you may be Ok just accepting the quote - if the work is defective the council will do something about it.

If the work is on your land you'll want something more than just a total cost.  At the minimum you want a specification - e.g. the depth they will dig out to, how thick each layer of what material will be.

Hi - thanks for the response. Both crossover (dropped kerb) and construction of a new driveway are being done. The crossover is all on highway land, and the driveway is on my own land. 

The Highways body which has give approval to the dropped kerb application need a week's notice of the start date in order to come and inspect the work at some point while it is being carried out. 

The driveway is, I would guess, a separate and private matter. In which case these are 2 separate jobs. 

bjorn_toby_wilde

Your call obviously, but I wouldn’t pay for anyone to construct a driveway without a specification as @Section62 says.  It’s a big outlay and you deserve more respect than a one line text message in lieu of a proper quotation.

You’re putting your trust in someone you don’t know and who, by refusing to give a proper quote, isn’t behaving in a professional manner.

Alarm bells are obviously ringing for you or you wouldn’t be posting on here. Deadlines often make for bad decisions.

districtnine

bjorn_toby_wilde said:
You’re putting your trust in someone you don’t know and who, by refusing to give a proper quote, isn’t behaving in a professional manner.

Alarm bells are obviously ringing for you or you wouldn’t be posting on here. Deadlines often make for bad decisions.

No - it hasn't seemed professional to me at all, I feel I've been treated with a lot of contempt, let alone not enough respect, and alarm bells are indeed ringing. Deadlines also make for poor and rushed work in my experience. 

I am wondering what might be best to do, out of 3 possible options I can see:

1. Find someone else instead. This would mean making another application to drop the kerb, though, and one of the problems is that there are no immediate alternatives in this area who are on the council's contractor list; so finding someone else is likely to be a problem.

2. Ask him to drop the kerb but not do the driveway. He is in the contract with the council / highways to do this. 

3. Send him a specification or whatever document and tell him it must be fully-completed re. the driveway, or I will refuse to let him do that work. The driveway doesn't have to be completed by a deadline, and so could be done by someone else, if he doesn't want to put details in writing.

I'd be interested in what option others might take. Or if there are any others out there.

In terms of writing a specification and telling him he must complete it, ChatGPT has suggested the following outline... Does this sound about right? Or a bit OTT? Or is something not there which should be?

Again, thanks to anyone for any thoughts.

1. Planning and Design:

• Size and Layout

·       Slope and Drainage - channel drains, soakaways, or connection to the existing drainage system etc. 

·       Underground Services - any existing underground services (pipes, cables); or a statement that none are present. 

·       Materials – specification of type of materials for the sub-base (e.g., MOT type 1) and the surface layer (e.g., tarmac, block paving, resin bound gravel). 

·       Legal Considerations: statement that all permissions for dropped kerb granted by local council + Highways

2. Construction:

·       Site Preparation – works needed such as remove existing surface, excavate to the required depth (specified), and compact the sub-base. 

·       Sub-base – eg ‘install a well-compacted sub-base layer (e.g., MOT type 1) to provide a stable foundation’ 

·       Surface Layer – eg ‘Install [chosen surface material], ensuring proper compaction and adherence to manufacturer guidelines. 

·       Drainage Installation eg ‘Install drainage channels, soakaways, or connect to the existing drainage system as per the design’. 

·       Ironwork Adjustment – [I don’t think there is any ironwork here, such as drain or manhole covers. But presumably he should look for those?].

3. Material Specifications:

• Sub-base - type and depth of the sub-base material, such as MOT type 1, and its compaction requirements. 

·       Surface Material – Details of chosen surface material and its thickness. 

·       Bedding Layer: type and thickness.

·       Edgings: Specify the type and installation method for any edgings. 

4. Drainage:

• Surface Water Management - how surface water will be managed, including crossfalls, drainage channels, or soakaways.
• Soakaway Construction – if used, size, construction, and percolation testing requirements.
• Connection to Drainage System – whether connecting to the existing drainage system, in which case specify the type of connection and any necessary permits. 

5. Other Considerations:

Lighting – [probably not needed in this case]. 

Landscaping – ‘Integrate the driveway with the surrounding landscape’ – not really an issue for me? 

Maintenance - specific maintenance requirements for the surface material. 

Cost - detailed cost breakdown for materials, labour, and any other associated expenses. 

Contractor Details - Specify the contractor's information, including qualifications and insurance

 

Section62

districtnine said:

bjorn_toby_wilde said:
You’re putting your trust in someone you don’t know and who, by refusing to give a proper quote, isn’t behaving in a professional manner.

Alarm bells are obviously ringing for you or you wouldn’t be posting on here. Deadlines often make for bad decisions.

No - it hasn't seemed professional to me at all, I feel I've been treated with a lot of contempt, let alone not enough respect, and alarm bells are indeed ringing. Deadlines also make for poor and rushed work in my experience. 

I am wondering what might be best to do, out of 3 possible options I can see:

1. Find someone else instead. This would mean making another application to drop the kerb, though, and one of the problems is that there are no immediate alternatives in this area who are on the council's contractor list; so finding someone else is likely to be a problem.

2. Ask him to drop the kerb but not do the driveway. He is in the contract with the council / highways to do this. 

3. Send him a specification or whatever document and tell him it must be fully-completed re. the driveway, or I will refuse to let him do that work. The driveway doesn't have to be completed by a deadline, and so could be done by someone else, if he doesn't want to put details in writing.

I'd be interested in what option others might take. Or if there are any others out there.

In terms of writing a specification and telling him he must complete it, ChatGPT has suggested the following outline... Does this sound about right? Or a bit OTT? Or is something not there which should be?

Again, thanks to anyone for any thoughts.

....

1.  Tell the council you are unhappy with this contractor, and ask them to give you details of another approved one or permission to find a contractor of your choice.  Ask them to extend the deadline due to the difficulty in finding a competent contractor they approve of. (as an aside, their 3-month limit is just a silly rule they have made up, which almost certainly has no basis in law)

2. There are three elements to this job:  The driveway would be on your own land. The crossover is the area of surfacing between your driveway and the kerb which is highway land. The dropped kerb is the section of kerbing lowered to make it easier to drive in and out.  The council or their (approved) contractor would normally do the crossover and dropped kerb.

Can you confirm: are you asking the contractor to do your driveway (not crossover) as well?

Are you absolutely sure the council doesn't require the driveway to be constructed before (or at the same time as) the crossover/dropped kerb?

3. Forget about trying to make the contractor use or complete your ChatGPT specification, there's no point if they don't have one they can give you.

If you really can get the crossover and dropped kerb done without the driveway then go ahead and do that.  Then get 3 quotes (with specifications) from other reliable contractors to do the driveway separately.

bjorn_toby_wilde

I’m in agreement with @Section62.

No council can force you to use the same contractor for both jobs. If you feel happy to use him for the crossover and the council have approved him then go ahead. If there were to be any problems with that part of the work then it’s on council land, not yours.

Equally you could find another contractor and that might be a better route.

Your driveway is completely different. If it were me I would 100% want a quote. Without one there is no evidence of what he agreed to deliver at what price or what you agreed to pay for. If there was any kind of problem then you would be left high and dry.

FreeBear

Paving Expert is a trusted source of information when it comes to all aspects of paving. Followed most of their advice when I put in a block paved drive here.

Dug down ~250mm, filled to a depth of 150-200mm with crushed brick/concrete. Topped off with ~25mm of sharp sand, and then laid 50mm pavers. Edging blocks were set in ~150mm concrete bed with haunching to prevent any movement. A drainage channel installed at the lowest point (conveniently at the junction between public path & drive) leading off to a small soakaway. No manholes to contend with, although we did find an old gas pipe (dead), and electricity cable (live).

Have seen neighbouring properties where the "builders" have just thrown in ~100mm of broken brick rubble as a sub base - That drive was sinking within a year. No movement in my drive 4/5 years on.

prowla

Who is your contract with and who will you be paying?

I wouldn't authorise starting the work without a written quote.

It's possible the contractor is doing some VAT and/or warranty shennanigans.

What do they say about (and have they checked for) cables running under the driveway area?

districtnine

Section62 said:

1.  Tell the council you are unhappy with this contractor, and ask them to give you details of another approved one or permission to find a contractor of your choice.  Ask them to extend the deadline due to the difficulty in finding a competent contractor they approve of. (as an aside, their 3-month limit is just a silly rule they have made up, which almost certainly has no basis in law)

2. There are three elements to this job:  The driveway would be on your own land. The crossover is the area of surfacing between your driveway and the kerb which is highway land. The dropped kerb is the section of kerbing lowered to make it easier to drive in and out.  The council or their (approved) contractor would normally do the crossover and dropped kerb.

Can you confirm: are you asking the contractor to do your driveway (not crossover) as well?

Are you absolutely sure the council doesn't require the driveway to be constructed before (or at the same time as) the crossover/dropped kerb?

3. Forget about trying to make the contractor use or complete your ChatGPT specification, there's no point if they don't have one they can give you.

If you really can get the crossover and dropped kerb done without the driveway then go ahead and do that.  Then get 3 quotes (with specifications) from other reliable contractors to do the driveway separately.

Hi - thanks for this. Yes - the contractor was supposed to be doing the driveway as well. The council, or Highways dept, have said nothing about when the driveway should be constructed, so I assume that's up to me.

Are you suggesting I could use the current contractor to do the crossover and dropped kerb, without his doing the driveway as well? Or find a different contractor to do those as well? 

districtnine

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

I’m in agreement with @Section62.

No council can force you to use the same contractor for both jobs. If you feel happy to use him for the crossover and the council have approved him then go ahead. If there were to be any problems with that part of the work then it’s on council land, not yours.

Equally you could find another contractor and that might be a better route.

Your driveway is completely different. If it were me I would 100% want a quote. Without one there is no evidence of what he agreed to deliver at what price or what you agreed to pay for. If there was any kind of problem then you would be left high and dry.

Thanks - I agree with all of this - including 'another contractor'. Not sure sacking him from driveway would make us confident about the drop kerb job he'd do - even if he agreed to still do it.