Santander free forever bank account changes

Nasqueron

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

boingy said:

amyfairweather said:

Also confirmed there, each complaint to the FOS costs Santander £650.

Only if you progress the complaint past the "triage" stage. In the first instance you'll probably get a response from an FOS underling saying that they don't think the complaint will be upheld and recommending that you don't proceed. So it's important to insist that it does proceed if you want it to reach a proper ombudsman.

Charging Santander (or any other institution) £650 is criminal!

Agreed however, the FOS are allowed to waive the charges on frivolous or vexatious complaints. Say you complain that a bank won't give you a loan because you can't afford it, bank rejects, customer goes to FOS, the FOS won't charge for this (at least they shouldn't) as it's not in their remit to force banks to lend money they feel someone can't repay.

It isn't as straightforward as your example suggests though.

A refusal to give a loan (on the basis of affordability) might be due to error, incorrect information, or a policy/process which conflicts with FCA rules or the law.

So such a complaint isn't necessarily 'frivolous or vexatious', and FOS probably won't know whether it is or isn't until they have investigated the case.

We could pick other examples and the FOS still won't force a lender to give a loan to someone they don't want to

Section62

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

boingy said:

amyfairweather said:

Also confirmed there, each complaint to the FOS costs Santander £650.

Only if you progress the complaint past the "triage" stage. In the first instance you'll probably get a response from an FOS underling saying that they don't think the complaint will be upheld and recommending that you don't proceed. So it's important to insist that it does proceed if you want it to reach a proper ombudsman.

Charging Santander (or any other institution) £650 is criminal!

Agreed however, the FOS are allowed to waive the charges on frivolous or vexatious complaints. Say you complain that a bank won't give you a loan because you can't afford it, bank rejects, customer goes to FOS, the FOS won't charge for this (at least they shouldn't) as it's not in their remit to force banks to lend money they feel someone can't repay.

It isn't as straightforward as your example suggests though.

A refusal to give a loan (on the basis of affordability) might be due to error, incorrect information, or a policy/process which conflicts with FCA rules or the law.

So such a complaint isn't necessarily 'frivolous or vexatious', and FOS probably won't know whether it is or isn't until they have investigated the case.

We could pick other examples and the FOS still won't force a lender to give a loan to someone they don't want to

Sure, but the point was that a bank not giving a loan "because [the complainant] can't afford it" doesn't mean a complaint about it is necessarily 'frivolous or vexatious'. (and thus legitimately incurs a full FOS case charge)

A better example of a frivolous complaint might be that 'Santander use red for their branding and the complaining customer is an Everton fan'.

FOS also have options other than "forc[ing] a lender to give a loan to someone they don't want to".

TheBanker

Section62 said:

singhini said:

boingy said:

amyfairweather said:

Also confirmed there, each complaint to the FOS costs Santander £650.

Only if you progress the complaint past the "triage" stage. In the first instance you'll probably get a response from an FOS underling saying that they don't think the complaint will be upheld and recommending that you don't proceed. So it's important to insist that it does proceed if you want it to reach a proper ombudsman.

Charging Santander (or any other institution) £650 is criminal!

As a shareholder I agree with the sentiment.

But as someone who thinks banks should treat people fairly, if the argument is that Santander need to charge £9.99 per month to cover their costs when they previously promised to provide the service for free 'forever', then it would be a tad hypocritical of Santander to have a moan about FOS charging (a maximum of) £650 to cover their costs.  Business is business.

And as said on this thread about the affected customers, if Santander don't like the FOS charges they could* take their business elsewhere.

(*Ok, a bit more involved than switching bank, but still theoretically possible)

No they can't. The FCA's Dispute Handling (DISP) rulebook makes this perfectly clear. 

Section62

TheBanker said:

Section62 said:

singhini said:

boingy said:

amyfairweather said:

Also confirmed there, each complaint to the FOS costs Santander £650.

Only if you progress the complaint past the "triage" stage. In the first instance you'll probably get a response from an FOS underling saying that they don't think the complaint will be upheld and recommending that you don't proceed. So it's important to insist that it does proceed if you want it to reach a proper ombudsman.

Charging Santander (or any other institution) £650 is criminal!

As a shareholder I agree with the sentiment.

But as someone who thinks banks should treat people fairly, if the argument is that Santander need to charge £9.99 per month to cover their costs when they previously promised to provide the service for free 'forever', then it would be a tad hypocritical of Santander to have a moan about FOS charging (a maximum of) £650 to cover their costs.  Business is business.

And as said on this thread about the affected customers, if Santander don't like the FOS charges they could* take their business elsewhere.

(*Ok, a bit more involved than switching bank, but still theoretically possible)

No they can't. The FCA's Dispute Handling (DISP) rulebook makes this perfectly clear. 

Actually, it is the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (S225) which requires there to be a single 'scheme operator'.

But I guess you missed "a bit more involved than switching bank, but still theoretically possible" which means if a bank or banks felt FOS charges were too steep they would be free to lobby for a change in the law (through a Private Act if necessary) to enable competition in the ombudsman service market, rather than it continuing to be monopolistic.

You may also have missed that my comment wasn't really serious - but rather a reference to customers being told they should take their business elsewhere if they don't like charges, as if doing so was a zero-effort/zero-cost activity.

Futuristic

flickadee001 said:

GW19 said:

I'm inclined to just close the Santander Business Account and move to one of the on-line/app based options.

Anyone else feel the same? Cannot really see Santander caving in and rolling this decision back personally......hence my thinking to vote with my feet to another Bank. 

I am about to do the same.
I had 3 Santander bank accounts, including a Business Reserve Account, and an Everyday Personal Account.

I've already closed the Business Reserve Account, and the Everyday Personal Account, just because its made me look elsewhere, if Santander are prepared to do this.

Now all of a sudden my Business Bank Card has been removed from Apple Pay with no warning?
So I am now in the process of trying to get this back!!

It seems regardless of this, that Santander have really gone downhill!

But any suggestions for a simple Sole Trader Business Account, that I could move to? (with no charges)?

I have seen many on here mention Starling Bank? but wanted to get some thoughts and opinions from people here who are probably in the same boat for moving an account..

Take a look at Mettle (owned by NatWest), seems the go to now primarily cause it includes freeagent which is fully functional accounting app. 

drphila

eskbanker said:

drphila said:

eskbanker said:

Which post-2015 regulations are you specifically thinking of, that mention "surprising"?

I actually said may have been post-2015. In fact, checking dates the relevant legislation came out the same year: Conumer Rights Act (2015)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450410/Unfair_Terms_Explained.pdf

Clause 20: "....If a term could come as a surprise to the consumer, it will require more effort to ensure its prominence compared to other terms (and this applies not only in the contract but to all pre-contract information, for example brochures or webpages)"

That's a guidance document rather than the legislation itself, but CRA's unfair terms provisions were largely carried over from previous legislation, namely the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, so a proper legal challenge to Santander's actions may need to factor those in too, given that their 2015 changes predated CRA.

There's also the question of whether omission of a term would be regarded in the same way, i.e. the crux of this issue is the post-2015 absence of the promise to retain free banking, rather than the ongoing presence of an unfair term as such.

I don't see any real distinction between the Act and the (Legislator's own) guidance on how the Act should be intepreted in practice. The fact remains that any content in a contract that would come as a surprise to a reasonable person should be adequately brought to the consumer's attention.

I think it would come as big surprise to most customers that the terms of the 2015 contract allow the bank to fundamentally change the banking relationship i.e break a lifetime promise and end free banking. This should have adequately been brought to customers' attention. In fact, it wasn't brought to their attention at all. 

It is those very terms that Santander are now using to justify ending free banking*

So, to return to my original argument, their failure to adequately explain those terms in respect of the implication for free banking, invalidates their justification.

*https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/jul/17/santander-business-accounts-free-owners  

ElDickster

Hello all, and thanks to whoever set this thread up. It's been useful for advice, as having had one of the letters about them reneging on my 'free forever' account I realised I'm not on my own.

Anyway, has anyone had a response to their complaint yet? I lodged mine two and a half weeks ago but haven't heard back yet. Also, I the fella I spoke to gave me a Dissatisfaction Case number. Is this different to an actual complaint, or just marketing-speak (to make it sound nicer)? I may have to chase them up, but can't face sitting on hold for another half an hour (I'm running a business! I'm busy!). Can I go into a branch to check?

Thanks again, and good luck to everyone!

Section62

ElDickster said:

Hello all, and thanks to whoever set this thread up. It's been useful for advice, as having had one of the letters about them reneging on my 'free forever' account I realised I'm not on my own.

Anyway, has anyone had a response to their complaint yet? I lodged mine two and a half weeks ago but haven't heard back yet. Also, I the fella I spoke to gave me a Dissatisfaction Case number. Is this different to an actual complaint, or just marketing-speak (to make it sound nicer)? I may have to chase them up, but can't face sitting on hold for another half an hour (I'm running a business! I'm busy!). Can I go into a branch to check?

Thanks again, and good luck to everyone!

A 'dissatisfaction' probably isn't being treated as a complaint.  There's a chance they have just noted it and closed it.  They have 8 weeks to deal with a complaint, so it is also possible they are still working on yours.

I would contact them to confirm, and if necessary make a new complaint - including (if necessary) that you wanted to make a formal complaint and they instead logged it as a 'dissatisfaction' without explaining the difference (obviously, only if that is true).

You can make a complaint in branch... but knowing Santander they might say you need an appointment and you'll have to come back another day.

Complaints by phone tend to be the best, because the complaint handler might be able to deal with the complaint then and there (by not upholding it) and so you'll get your 'final response letter' within a few days.  I think the branch would just log your complaint on the system and it would then sit there waiting your turn.

Make a note of the time you've spent and any call costs, as you can ask FOS to consider these as part of your complaint.

ElDickster

Section62 said:

ElDickster said:

Hello all, and thanks to whoever set this thread up. It's been useful for advice, as having had one of the letters about them reneging on my 'free forever' account I realised I'm not on my own.

Anyway, has anyone had a response to their complaint yet? I lodged mine two and a half weeks ago but haven't heard back yet. Also, I the fella I spoke to gave me a Dissatisfaction Case number. Is this different to an actual complaint, or just marketing-speak (to make it sound nicer)? I may have to chase them up, but can't face sitting on hold for another half an hour (I'm running a business! I'm busy!). Can I go into a branch to check?

Thanks again, and good luck to everyone!

A 'dissatisfaction' probably isn't being treated as a complaint.  There's a chance they have just noted it and closed it.  They have 8 weeks to deal with a complaint, so it is also possible they are still working on yours.

I would contact them to confirm, and if necessary make a new complaint - including (if necessary) that you wanted to make a formal complaint and they instead logged it as a 'dissatisfaction' without explaining the difference (obviously, only if that is true).

You can make a complaint in branch... but knowing Santander they might say you need an appointment and you'll have to come back another day.

Complaints by phone tend to be the best, because the complaint handler might be able to deal with the complaint then and there (by not upholding it) and so you'll get your 'final response letter' within a few days.  I think the branch would just log your complaint on the system and it would then sit there waiting your turn.

Make a note of the time you've spent and any call costs, as you can ask FOS to consider these as part of your complaint.

Thanks very much. I'l bite the bullet and ring them asap. They didn't explain the difference between a complaint and a Dissatisfaction Case, so I'll bring this up with them.
Have a nice Sunday!

singhini

ElDickster said:

Section62 said:

ElDickster said:

Hello all, and thanks to whoever set this thread up. It's been useful for advice, as having had one of the letters about them reneging on my 'free forever' account I realised I'm not on my own.

Anyway, has anyone had a response to their complaint yet? I lodged mine two and a half weeks ago but haven't heard back yet. Also, I the fella I spoke to gave me a Dissatisfaction Case number. Is this different to an actual complaint, or just marketing-speak (to make it sound nicer)? I may have to chase them up, but can't face sitting on hold for another half an hour (I'm running a business! I'm busy!). Can I go into a branch to check?

Thanks again, and good luck to everyone!

A 'dissatisfaction' probably isn't being treated as a complaint.  There's a chance they have just noted it and closed it.  They have 8 weeks to deal with a complaint, so it is also possible they are still working on yours.

I would contact them to confirm, and if necessary make a new complaint - including (if necessary) that you wanted to make a formal complaint and they instead logged it as a 'dissatisfaction' without explaining the difference (obviously, only if that is true).

You can make a complaint in branch... but knowing Santander they might say you need an appointment and you'll have to come back another day.

Complaints by phone tend to be the best, because the complaint handler might be able to deal with the complaint then and there (by not upholding it) and so you'll get your 'final response letter' within a few days.  I think the branch would just log your complaint on the system and it would then sit there waiting your turn.

Make a note of the time you've spent and any call costs, as you can ask FOS to consider these as part of your complaint.

Thanks very much. I'l bite the bullet and ring them asap. They didn't explain the difference between a complaint and a Dissatisfaction Case, so I'll bring this up with them.
Have a nice Sunday!

When you bring it up with them, can you report back on here and lets us know if there is an actual difference please. 

Looking at FCA handbook and in particular complaints it reads "any oral or written expression of dissatisfaction................" 

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/glossary/G197.html

It would be nice to know if there are two difference case types of if its sll just the same thing.