Inheritance, Housing benefit/Council tax benefit and debt

elsien

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

viksviks84

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

She needed a car to get to work. She lives in the South Wales valleys and works in Cardiff. Public transport isn't viable in my opinion as it would take 3 hrs! 

Muttleythefrog

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

Given that Universal credit basic element is £400 a month for over 24s (so this is what the government think a single working age person can live on... far far less than state pension) rest assured many around live on far less and know how to. 

"The loan from my aunt was documented to be repaid in full upon the settlement of their mothers estate. How can that not be a loan if the lender wants to be repaid" - they could be dead themselves by then.. it's a long time. I thought you made a loan too unrelated to this. The reality to a reasonable outsider might be that any money you give to the subject of the thread is not likely coming back as they seem to need repeated help. 

Anyway...it's not that important here...refer to my second paragraph in previous post... you're doing exactly what a lot of people do when they seek advice on this subject. We are not decision makers... or if anyone floating around happens to be it is exceptionally unlikely they'd be the one looking at her case. There are several elements to this one and subjectivity could be key on some of them. Members can state the rules and in normal circumstances we can give hard and fast rules and realities...we can point out case law relevant.. but when ad hoc investigations of matters requiring rules be applied with subjectivity we're not well placed... and arguing won't help you or her.... at least not here... with the DWP is where efforts may need to be focussed. And remember too we don't decide the rules... if you think it unfair people with lots of money should be able to blow it and claim income related benefits then that's your opinion... we can only say how the system regarding income related/means tested benefits may treat such a situation if they look at it.

We can offer good advice on saving money.... for the record I'd have no difficulty living on £1300 a month... in fact if I look at what was before recent separation my wife and my combined costs including maintenance fees and ground rent of our home plus all else... including her gym membership... less than £600 a month... bills services... travel... all in... 2 adults with at the time a cat. If she needs advice of money saving... she needs to come here..lol. But we take smart decisions... we have an efficient flat... we live in a town centre.. we can get food for next to nowt... we can have days out at venues for annual local pass costs etc... we don't have a car... I've never had a car...never needed one. UC basic element for over 24s couples £628 a month... so the state thinks two working age people can live on less than half you think your relative would struggle to.... so when you said "Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month" to a member I am tempted to say maybe you don't realise how many people are living on less than half that including couples. Anyway it's not really relevant... however... being realistic possibly is... and context... when it comes to subjectivity.

CosmoChic

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

She needed a car to get to work. She lives in the South Wales valleys and works in Cardiff. Public transport isn't viable in my opinion as it would take 3 hrs! 

How much does she earn?  It can't be much if her income is £1300pm (presumably excluding rent and council tax) and she receives the state pension.  Does she need the expense of a car v how little she must be earning? 

Muttleythefrog

CosmoChic said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

She needed a car to get to work. She lives in the South Wales valleys and works in Cardiff. Public transport isn't viable in my opinion as it would take 3 hrs! 

How much does she earn?  It can't be much if her income is £1300pm (presumably excluding rent and council tax) and she receives the state pension.  Does she need the expense of a car v how little she must be earning? 

She's now recently retired... one might wonder if she does need a car now.

Spoonie_Turtle

Muttleythefrog said:

CosmoChic said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

She needed a car to get to work. She lives in the South Wales valleys and works in Cardiff. Public transport isn't viable in my opinion as it would take 3 hrs! 

How much does she earn?  It can't be much if her income is £1300pm (presumably excluding rent and council tax) and she receives the state pension.  Does she need the expense of a car v how little she must be earning? 

She's now recently retired... one might wonder if she does need a car now.

Depends what public transport is available - a bus pass is no use if there are no useful buses, and we're surely not yet a society that believes pensioners shouldn't expect to be able to still go out and about as their health allows.

sheramber

Should taxpayers be paying for her car?

Spoonie_Turtle

sheramber said:

Should taxpayers be paying for her car?

I don't know.  They would be paying for her bus fares if she could make use of her bus pass. 
(Although if there are indeed buses she can use then I agree it's much less likely the expenditure could be classed as reasonable - depending on the facts of the case which the DM will have to hopefully a full extent, which we don't.) 

If the £6k in question* were treated as notional capital for HB, the tariff income would be £12/week, just for some context.

I've also reskimmed the thread and I can't see where I got £6k from*, I might be thinking of a different thread.  But OP says she now has below £10k, erroneously believing that's the threshold for benefit eligibility, whereas it's £16k for HB and no set limit for PC (but if she has full state pension there'll likely be no PC entitlement anyway).  So if they class the car spending as unreasonable and still treating it as notional capital, it may be moot if if it doesn't take her over £16k still.

The bigger spending on repaying loans that she may not be able to prove is the more important issue, AND for HB there might also be the issue of even if proven, whether the debt/s is/are deemed to have been due.

*If it's actually 2-3k (the only other potential figure I could see, the 'bit on top' of the debt, mentioned by OP) then tariff income for that would be £4-6/week.  

Muttleythefrog

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

CosmoChic said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

elsien said:

viksviks84 said:

itsthelittlethings said:

State pension, housing benefit and council tax benefit adds up to an ok amount. She should be able to afford to live. She may not be taking any flights to visit you. If you want to support her research local organisations which support people on low incomes, sometimes there are food pantries which as not food banks as such. Age Concern might also be able to help with advice.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she can't use her inheritance to take a holiday

She can take a holiday just not a ridiculously expensive one. 

However in terms of you saying you’ve loaned the money over 20 years – it’s not really a loan when she’s not managing day-to-day and it’s blindingly obvious you’re never going get the money back. If she hadn’t had the inheritance you probably had no expectation of any money back so I do think it’s on slightly dodgy ground calling it a loan now. 

I wouldn't say she couldn't manage on a daily basis. She could make ends meet, there might only be a few pound in the bank at the end of the month but she didn't need help every month. She needed help with larger expenses and car repairs. Maybe you don't realise how difficult it is to run a house as a single person on £1300 a month

But if you can’t afford to run a car, then you don’t have a car. Spoken as a single person who couldn’t afford to run a car for quite a long time. 

And if she continuously needed help with larger expenses then I’m retaining my view that it was helping her out and wasn’t really a loan  because there was no chance she was ever going to pay it back.

She needed a car to get to work. She lives in the South Wales valleys and works in Cardiff. Public transport isn't viable in my opinion as it would take 3 hrs! 

How much does she earn?  It can't be much if her income is £1300pm (presumably excluding rent and council tax) and she receives the state pension.  Does she need the expense of a car v how little she must be earning? 

She's now recently retired... one might wonder if she does need a car now.

Depends what public transport is available - a bus pass is no use if there are no useful buses, and we're surely not yet a society that believes pensioners shouldn't expect to be able to still go out and about as their health allows.

Absolutely but in a scenario of future if she was struggling.. it might be a factor. We know she no longer needs to go to work which was cited as the reason for the car. If public transport is a problem... or indeed her home is expensive to run these are other considerations...that might provoke more drastic changes like moving. But I have a sense that a lack of basic ability to manage finances sensibly may be at play and have been for a very long time... could be wrong.

sheramber

Spoonie_Turtle said:

sheramber said:

Should taxpayers be paying for her car?

I don't know.  They would be paying for her bus fares if she could make use of her bus pass. 
(Although if there are indeed buses she can use then I agree it's much less likely the expenditure could be classed as reasonable - depending on the facts of the case which the DM will have to hopefully a full extent, which we don't.) 

If the £6k in question* were treated as notional capital for HB, the tariff income would be £12/week, just for some context.

I've also reskimmed the thread and I can't see where I got £6k from*, I might be thinking of a different thread.  But OP says she now has below £10k, erroneously believing that's the threshold for benefit eligibility, whereas it's £16k for HB and no set limit for PC (but if she has full state pension there'll likely be no PC entitlement anyway).  So if they class the car spending as unreasonable and still treating it as notional capital, it may be moot if if it doesn't take her over £16k still.

The bigger spending on repaying loans that she may not be able to prove is the more important issue, AND for HB there might also be the issue of even if proven, whether the debt/s is/are deemed to have been due.

*If it's actually 2-3k (the only other potential figure I could see, the 'bit on top' of the debt, mentioned by OP) then tariff income for that would be £4-6/week.  

According to Shelter the capital limit for HB for persons over working age is £10,000z .

It is the  council who are checking the bank statements so presumably for HB and CT help.