PIP Urgent Help

HillStreetBlues

If you do get a repayment letter read it carefully as unless it's either misrepresentation or failure to disclose then the money isn't recoverable and they might "ask" you to pay it back, which means you don't have too.

itsthelittlethings

So she’s had 2 reassessments and they didn’t pick up on her not being entitled to PIP? That sounds….unlikely.

Ask if you can take it to tribunal or appeal in another way.

itsthelittlethings

atlantis187 said:

its not a scam the letter looks like official DWP with her NI on and everything.

Her original claim date was September 2018. Since then if I can remeber correctly she has had a couple of extensions due to covid and 1 assesment.

Througout this period she had been getting standard care and low mobility rate.

From this latest assesment in Dec 2024 from the assesors report she had awarded 20 points for care and 22 points for mobility. This letter they have sent today shows zero points for everything.

we had not heard anything back till today with this letter and everytime we phoned to chase it up they said it is with the 'enhanced review team' they are looking at it.

This has totally shocked my wife she is feeling suicidal and we are terrified of ringing them. 

atlantis187 said:

its not a scam the letter looks like official DWP with her NI on and everything.

Her original claim date was September 2018. Since then if I can remeber correctly she has had a couple of extensions due to covid and 1 assesment.

Througout this period she had been getting standard care and low mobility rate.

From this latest assesment in Dec 2024 from the assesors report she had awarded 20 points for care and 22 points for mobility. This letter they have sent today shows zero points for everything.

we had not heard anything back till today with this letter and everytime we phoned to chase it up they said it is with the 'enhanced review team' they are looking at it.

This has totally shocked my wife she is feeling suicidal and we are terrified of ringing them. 

She was awarded 44 points in December and now they’re saying nothing? Again…unlikely.

atlantis187

The assessment was done in Dec 2024 where the assessor awarded her 20/22 points for both components according to the report which we requested.
They (DWP) have spent 7 months to come back to us with a decision and the above is the letter they have sent today showing 0 points for everything and on top of that saying she should not have been entitled from the beginning.
All the health issues she suffers from have been told to the DWP and backed up with medical proof.

This is so shocking and frustrating, didn't think DWP could be this incompetent.

Muttleythefrog

Hoping I can submit my post this time.... MSE does seem to be having some technicals.

Much more likely than not this is a genuine letter given background and content... especially given you mention the decision seems to have been with the enhanced review team for some months since assessment... that seems particularly significant here. 

I found a webpage last night that could shed some light. It's probably not bang up to date but offers background of changing anti fraud checking towards end last government that will be continuing

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fighting-fraud-in-the-welfare-system/fighting-fraud-in-the-welfare-system-going-further

This section worth reading

"Case Study: Enhanced Review Team - Personal Independence Payment (PIP) trial

Building upon DWP’s Enhanced Review Team’s success in 2023/24 in tackling fraud and error across Universal Credit, the Enhanced Review Team has expanded its work across other benefit lines. This is starting with a trial within Personal Independence Payment (PIP) with a focus on both preventing and disrupting fraud and error.

To date, the Enhanced Review Team have completed reviews on 1,600 high-risk cases taking the appropriate action by referring cases to relevant decision-making teams where inaccurate information or inconsistencies were found, and ensuring any potential criminal activity is escalated for investigation.

The success of the trial led to millions being saved for the exchequer and the PIP trial being rolled out across DWP’s service centres. In the coming year the Enhanced Review Team will extend the pilots across other DWP benefit lines.

As this is rolled out the Enhanced Review Team will continue to ensure the protection of vulnerable customers during their review process. The team can tailor a review to accommodate customer needs and they have the necessary tools to signpost customers to other organisations and engage with Advanced Customer Support as required. The team have also received specific training to identify signs of modern slavery and human trafficking and safely refer cases."

In this case they hardly have ensured protection of a vulnerable customer. I am surprised at how poor the decision is in communicating facts... I mean they even describe 2018 being a future date which was why I wondered if they even had that correct but it does seem to relate to the very start of the claim. You cannot challenge the decision without detail of what it actually constitutes... it's like being accused of a crime but nobody telling what crime. So I think you need to call them... confirm letter genuine (likely they will but you'd already faced the reality of that) and see if they have any other information to help you or can see any other letter coming to you. The repayment issue obviously concerning but no certainties on that yet, I think you need a statement of reasons for the decision so you can determine what they're on about and how you would challenge it - I wonder if members would advise simply requesting such in that call. It strikes me this is quite a clinical decision they've taken, albeit quite slowly it seems, and counter to all previous decisions and the assessment report they will have had in hand for this review... I wonder if some data matching/AI has thrown something up that may not even be accurate or true. It's almost as if underpinning medical conditions have been found to not be considered to exist - not saying that's at play here but it strikes me that sort of level of dramatic factual information would be needed to make such a sweeping decision... and they direct that it is medical related rather than administrative like say she was using someone else's NiNo or didn't exist. Obviously this will be stressful for you both but all is not lost... it is possible they have made some major misjudgement or found information unreliable.

So first steps probably.... pin down that the decision is legitimate and find out what underpins it with their explanation (written Statement of Reasons I think would be appropriate) would be my advice. Then look to challenge the decision assuming there is disagreement with how they've reached this quite stunning decision. Keep us updated so continued advice can be supplied and we get better understanding more broadly perhaps of what may become more common a feature/problem with PIP claims. Obviously if you feel it necessary seek out CAB or the like... but I'd initially be inclined to get an appreciation for their decision first so such help can be factually driven and appropriately timed. And on the issue of time I would not delay - ideally you'd want plenty time to meet the usual parameters for challenging decision (which could involve seeking 3rd party help which may not be efficiently served) so pushing for info now seems wise.

atlantis187

Thank you Muttleythefrog and everyone else for your help 

We are so dreading this but going to try and call them today.

atlantis187

We finally got through to them after ages and they cofirmed the letter is from them.
He put us though to a case manager just our bad luck we got a guy who seemed inexperianced and had to keep putting us on hold to check with someone else with every question we asked him.

I asked him to send us a written statement of reasons for this decision and he just kept saying the letter we have got already explains that and there is northing further they can send with an explanation and told us if we are not happy to do a mandatory reconsideration.
He seemed clueless about the Sept 2018 date aswell but did confirm there wasn't any other letters on the system due to come out to us currently.

OMG this is so frustrating dealing with them.

What should we do next, as we dont know exactly what we are challeging?

Muttleythefrog

The letter absolutely does not explain the decision at all. 

I wonder if people would suggest calling again tomorrow.. to try again. different agent...different case manager... again ask for statement of reasons. This all might be frustrating but I think you've just got to persist.. even if no joy with SoR. Just looking at government page it does suggest for PIP you don't need to request a SoR as the decision letter includes a written statement. But that statement is so general it's impossible to know what they've based their decision on. Did you put to them 'we do not know why they've disagreed with assessment reports - there is no details of what information they have they have based decision on'

Have they explained the descriptor choices of zero... or again been completely vague and non committal?

If you get no joy maybe CAB it is... they surely also though will struggle to help challenge a decision they don't understand but they might better know how to get blood out of the fools frankly at the DWP.

The worst case scenario if pushed for MR time is submit saying the decision is wrong, there has been no information given to you that they have relied on and you cannot contest detail you cannot see, but you agree with all assessments that have been conducted by qualified and trained Disability Assessors and whom themselves had access to evidence sufficient to make their determinations as did previous decision makers at DWP during the claim... or something like that. You could also add in the MR that you requested explanation/SoR for the decision as you could not establish what the decision was based on or why they made the decision they did and the DWP refused to supply such saying you already had a letter explaining the decision - a tribunal might be intrigued to know that while themselves struggling to understand the DWP decision unless they furnish a tribunal with information they failed to provide to you at this time!

This is messy and vague... so yes wondering if the descriptor choices help explain or if there's anything you can imagine might have gone wrong in background of evidence 

Just my thoughts. 

atlantis187

Muttleythefrog said:

The letter absolutely does not explain the decision at all. 

I wonder if people would suggest calling again tomorrow.. to try again. different agent...different case manager... again ask for statement of reasons. This all might be frustrating but I think you've just got to persist.. even if no joy with SoR. Just looking at government page it does suggest for PIP you don't need to request a SoR as the decision letter includes a written statement. But that statement is so general it's impossible to know what they've based their decision on. Did you put to them 'we do not know why they've disagreed with assessment reports - there is no details of what information they have they have based decision on'

Have they explained the descriptor choices of zero... or again been completely vague and non committal?

If you get no joy maybe CAB it is... they surely also though will struggle to help challenge a decision they don't understand but they might better know how to get blood out of the fools frankly at the DWP.

The worst case scenario if pushed for MR time is submit saying the decision is wrong, there has been no information given to you that they have relied on and you cannot contest detail you cannot see, but you agree with all assessments that have been conducted by qualified and trained Disability Assessors and whom themselves had access to evidence sufficient to make their determinations as did previous decision makers at DWP during the claim... or something like that. You could also add in the MR that you requested explanation/SoR for the decision as you could not establish what the decision was based on or why they made the decision they did and the DWP refused to supply such saying you already had a letter explaining the decision - a tribunal might be intrigued to know that while themselves struggling to understand the DWP decision unless they furnish a tribunal with information they failed to provide to you at this time!

This is messy and vague... so yes wondering if the descriptor choices help explain or if there's anything you can imagine might have gone wrong in background of evidence 

Just my thoughts. 

Thank you so much for this mate, its so helpful.

Like I mentioned he seemed really inexperienced and didn't seem to know what he was doing as as one stage he said she had only scored a total of 2 points and when I said on the letter they have sent it states she has scored 0 for everything and he was eh eh eh...i'll go and check with someone.

Anyway I pushed him a little and said we want to speak to a manger before putting a MR in as without an explanation we don't know what we are challenging he said the manager wouldn't be able to send an SoR out either as they don't have any other paperwork to send us.

So I pushed a little more and after he away again and spoke to someone he eventually he said he would get another team to ring us to give us an explanation but couldn't tell us the name of the team.

I have been ringing the CAB non stop for 2 days now and cant get through.
All this is making us sick with worry.

Spoonie_Turtle

Are you able to e-mail the CAB?  At least that way it should get eyes on your situation even though you haven't yet been able to get through on the phone.