Faulty 2nd hand car from main dealer - reassurance request

BikerBudgie

I purchased a car for approx. £9k in Feb of this year. within 2 months i got Engine management lights (code read as DPF related) so i returned to the dealership. long story short this has repeated a further 3x within 6 months of purchase, each time the same fault re-occurring.

So I read up on the CRA and pushed for a refund from the dealership, they accept but I am having trouble agreeing to a "fair use" value for the approx. 4000 miles i have driven the car. They wish to discount at 45p per mile derived from "the HMRC's Approved Mileage Payment (AMAP) figure claiming this is standard industry practise.

I have suggested that fair value should be derived using this guide :- (edit im a newbie so can post links yet - its a guide I found on the business companion info website)

Which comes out at approximately 11p per mile.

I have pointed out that AMAP isn't fit for purpose when calculating a value for fair usage, after all would they still be happy with 45p per mile for a Ferrari? also AMAP's value is designed to reimburse drivers for car use, fuel, insurance, mot, tax etc etc all of which I have already paid for.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the CRA and the value I feel I should be receiving.

Alderbank

What's the make, model, age and mileage of the car please?

born_again

BikerBudgie said:

I purchased a car for approx. £9k in Feb of this year. within 2 months i got Engine management lights (code read as DPF related) so i returned to the dealership. long story short this has repeated a further 3x within 6 months of purchase, each time the same fault re-occurring.

So I read up on the CRA and pushed for a refund from the dealership, they accept but I am having trouble agreeing to a "fair use" value for the approx. 4000 miles i have driven the car. They wish to discount at 45p per mile derived from "the HMRC's Approved Mileage Payment (AMAP) figure claiming this is standard industry practise.

I have suggested that fair value should be derived using this guide :- (edit im a newbie so can post links yet - its a guide I found on the business companion info website)

Which comes out at approximately 11p per mile.

I have pointed out that AMAP isn't fit for purpose when calculating a value for fair usage, after all would they still be happy with 45p per mile for a Ferrari? also AMAP's value is designed to reimburse drivers for car use, fuel, insurance, mot, tax etc etc all of which I have already paid for.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the CRA and the value I feel I should be receiving.

Your not entitled to these back. As they are normal expenses of owing a car.

Deduction for miles covered is a issue that is not covered in CR. So it is something you need to reach a agreement with dealer on. 
45p is a figure that is often mention on these type of posts. 
Your mileage is well above the annual mileage. 
I would be looking to meet somewhere in the middle so around 25 to 30p a mile.
Also you have to factor in age & mileage on the car. Which are important to know.

born_again

OP has 2 threads.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6616759/potential-court-action-for-faulty-2nd-hand-car-from-main-dealer#latest

Wonka_2

Alderbank said:

What's the make, model, age and mileage of the car please?

Definitely - depending on the OP’s usage of the car a DPF could easily be broken in 4k miles even if perfect when bought. 

There may be more to this that the OP hasn’t shared but I’m surprised the dealer is entertaining a return (or maybe the 45p per mile is their way of managing this without incurring a loss) 

Mildly_Miffed

I would suggest that only 4,000 miles in six months - 660 miles/month - would be conditions likely to cause or exacerbate DPF issues.

What age and mileage of car are we talking about here? DPFs are items which do require certain usage patterns, and which do require maintenance and have a finite lifespan, especially outside those usage patterns. After a decade and a half of them being fitted, none of this should come as a surprise.

sheramber

BikerBudgie said:

I purchased a car for approx. £9k in Feb of this year. within 2 months i got Engine management lights (code read as DPF related) so i returned to the dealership. long story short this has repeated a further 3x within 6 months of purchase, each time the same fault re-occurring.

So I read up on the CRA and pushed for a refund from the dealership, they accept but I am having trouble agreeing to a "fair use" value for the approx. 4000 miles i have driven the car. They wish to discount at 45p per mile derived from "the HMRC's Approved Mileage Payment (AMAP) figure claiming this is standard industry practise.

I have suggested that fair value should be derived using this guide :- (edit im a newbie so can post links yet - its a guide I found on the business companion info website)

Which comes out at approximately 11p per mile.

I have pointed out that AMAP isn't fit for purpose when calculating a value for fair usage, after all would they still be happy with 45p per mile for a Ferrari? also AMAP's value is designed to reimburse drivers for car use, fuel, insurance, mot, tax etc etc all of which I have already paid for.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the CRA and the value I feel I should be receiving.

Is that 11p per mile for company cars, which covers fuel only?

That is not relevant to you.

You are being charged  for the use of the car , the  wear and tear and depreciation. 

BikerBudgie

my apologies for having two threads, I'm new and wasn't sure if this was relevant to motoring or CR, i will stay on this thread.

to clarify some of the points above 

Car is a Kia Sportage 2017, 57k miles when purchased. ive covered around 4k miles in total over 6 months (so 8k per annum - below average)

At approx. 1,000 miles and a little over a month from purchase the fault first appeared, the garage has taken it back a further 3 times for the same fault and its still happening. The garage accepts the responsibility for the faulty car, that is not being disputed.

According to everything I have read the trader has the right to discount my refund based on fair value for the mileage covered. The dispute i have is the price set on this - the garage states 45p per mile is the rate they use, regardless of the value of the vehicle - clearly this is representative of the use of the specific vehicle, eg if i drove a Bugatti Veyron for 4000 miles would that have the same value as a ford focus? They also claim they use the 45p based on HMRC AMAP, this is used to reimburse "car allowance" for employees using their own vehicles, aside from being designed for a completely different purpose that figure is designed to reimburse the driver for fuel, tax, insurance etc etc as well as wear and tear, In the case of a car being refunded only wear and tear is a consideration as all over costs have already been incurred by myself.

BikerBudgie

sheramber said:

BikerBudgie said:

I purchased a car for approx. £9k in Feb of this year. within 2 months i got Engine management lights (code read as DPF related) so i returned to the dealership. long story short this has repeated a further 3x within 6 months of purchase, each time the same fault re-occurring.

So I read up on the CRA and pushed for a refund from the dealership, they accept but I am having trouble agreeing to a "fair use" value for the approx. 4000 miles i have driven the car. They wish to discount at 45p per mile derived from "the HMRC's Approved Mileage Payment (AMAP) figure claiming this is standard industry practise.

I have suggested that fair value should be derived using this guide :- (edit im a newbie so can post links yet - its a guide I found on the business companion info website)

Which comes out at approximately 11p per mile.

I have pointed out that AMAP isn't fit for purpose when calculating a value for fair usage, after all would they still be happy with 45p per mile for a Ferrari? also AMAP's value is designed to reimburse drivers for car use, fuel, insurance, mot, tax etc etc all of which I have already paid for.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the CRA and the value I feel I should be receiving.

Is that 11p per mile for company cars, which covers fuel only?

That is not relevant to you.

You are being charged  for the use of the car , the  wear and tear and depreciation. 

Actually no, the guide that I unfortunately cannot link too was designed to calculate the value of W&T by dividing the original purchase price by the expected lifetime of the vehicle and its current age etc. it was created by "the Chartered Trading Standards Institute" as a guide as no specific value is assigned in the CRA.

That comes out at around 11p per mile or just aprox £500 deduction on the car refund rather than nearly £2k 

lincroft1710

BikerBudgie said:

.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the CRA and the value I feel I should be receiving.

Do you realise how long it can take for a MCOL case to be heard even if you started the claims process today?

Ectophile

Mildly_Miffed said:

I would suggest that only 4,000 miles in six months - 660 miles/month - would be conditions likely to cause or exacerbate DPF issues.

I've had my Euro 5 Land Rover for 6 years now.  I do just under 3000 miles a year in it.  The DPF has never failed yet.