potential court action for faulty 2nd hand car from main dealer.

BikerBudgie

I purchased a car for approx. £9k in Feb of this year. within 2 months i got Engine management lights (code read as DPF related) so i returned to the dealership. long story short this has repeated a further 3x within 6 months of purchase, each time the same fault re-occurring.

So I read up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) and pushed for a refund from the dealership, they accept but I am having trouble agreeing to a "fair use" value for the approx. 4000 miles i have driven the car. They wish to discount at 45p per mile derived from "the HMRC's Approved Mileage Payment (AMAP) figure claiming this is standard industry practise(?).

I have suggested that fair value should be derived using this guide :- (edit im a newbie so can post links yet - its a guide I found on the business companion info website)

Which derives value based on the age and original sales price of the vehicle. This comes out at approximately 11p per mile.

I have pointed out that AMAP isn't fit for purpose when calculating a value for fair usage, after all would they still be happy with 45p per mile for a Ferrari? also AMAP's value is designed to reimburse drivers for car use, fuel, insurance, mot, tax etc etc all of which I have already paid for.

I fully intend to take this to court if necessary but I thought I would post on here to see if any legal types agree or disagree with my interpretation of the the value I feel I should be receiving? it feels like the dealership is pumping up the price to force me into giving them a 4th chance of fixing a car that ive now lost faith in.

born_again

Duplicate thread here..

Best sticking to one thread..

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6616731/faulty-2nd-hand-car-from-main-dealer-reassurance-request#latest

Nobbie1967

Not a legal type, but I think you are right in challenging this for the reasons you state. I.e. the 45p includes costs you have incurred. You could quote back whatever the standard excess mileage charge is for PCP deals, probably about 10-15p per mile. That does’t account for time based depreciation, but it helps set a more reasonable value for the use.

I think the HMRC rate might be a reasonable ceiling when handing back a new car since the depreciation will be very large, but it would be unfair to charge you £5k for the depreciation when you’ve only used the car for 1000 miles.

BikerBudgie

born_again said:

Duplicate thread here..

Best sticking to one thread..

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6616731/faulty-2nd-hand-car-from-main-dealer-reassurance-request#latest

Sorry - I wasn't sure which forum to use as its both motoring and Consumer Rights. I will continue this on the CR forum.

Mildly_Miffed

Nobbie1967 said:

Not a legal type, but I think you are right in challenging this for the reasons you state. I.e. the 45p includes costs you have incurred. You could quote back whatever the standard excess mileage charge is for PCP deals, probably about 10-15p per mile. That does’t account for time based depreciation, but it helps set a more reasonable value for the use.

I think the HMRC rate might be a reasonable ceiling when handing back a new car since the depreciation will be very large, but it would be unfair to charge you £5k for the depreciation when you’ve only used the car for 1000 miles.

Umm, 1000 miles at 45p would be £450, not £5000.
£5000 at 45p would be over 11,100 miles.

The OP's 4k miles and 6 months would be £1,800.

45p/mile is meant to cover the full cost of running a car - including amortised insurance and VED, fuel, maintenance, tyre wear - as well as simple ownership. It's clearly too high a figure for this purpose.

The 25p figure from HMRC over 10k/miles in one year is meant to cover just the variable costs (fuel, maintenance, tyre wear, etc) not the amortised fixed costs of ownership.

The question here is whether it's reasonable to expect DPF issues in an 8yo diesel used for 4k miles in six months. I'd suggest it's not necessarily pointing to any intrisic fault in the car, which probably just needs a good opportunity for regeneration.

BikerBudgie

Mildly_Miffed said:

The question here is whether it's reasonable to expect DPF issues in an 8yo diesel used for 4k miles in six months. I'd suggest it's not necessarily pointing to any intrisic fault in the car, which probably just needs a good opportunity for regeneration.

It's a fault with the car, the garage have accepted that and agreed to the refund process, its the value per mile I'm unhappy with for exactly the reasons you've stated 45p is way too high. 

Mildly_Miffed

BikerBudgie said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

The question here is whether it's reasonable to expect DPF issues in an 8yo diesel used for 4k miles in six months. I'd suggest it's not necessarily pointing to any intrisic fault in the car, which probably just needs a good opportunity for regeneration.

It's a fault with the car, the garage have accepted that and agreed to the refund process, its the value per mile I'm unhappy with for exactly the reasons you've stated 45p is way too high. 

Indeed.

And their voluntary acceptance of the return of the car can be under different terms to a legally-required refusal of it.

If you wish to return it under different terms, you can try negotiating with them... but if you cannot come to a mutually acceptable arrangement, you will have to follow the usual legal route. Physically return it, with all paperwork/keys/etc, and launch a court claim for the money.

photome

Are they offering you a full refund less £450?  That seems reasonable to me for 6 months use. If you don’t think it is, how much do you think is reasonable ?

edit,,sorry just seen it’s 4000 miles so 1.8k which doesn’t sound reasonable, still begs the question what figure would you be happy with

Grey_Critic

Just  athought - They use to reckon that a car with above average mileage lost value by £0 per 1,000 over average 

photome

Grey_Critic said:

Just  athought - They use to reckon that a car with above average mileage lost value by £0 per 1,000 over average 

Did you mean to put a figure in after the pound sign?

Can’t be zero 

Grey_Critic

photome said:

Grey_Critic said:

Just  athought - They use to reckon that a car with above average mileage lost value by £0 per 1,000 over average 

Did you mean to put a figure in after the pound sign?

Can’t be zero 

SORRY  should have read Thirty Pounds per thousand miles over the average. ( I also fail to add attachments at times also)