Unregistered Land

Kitts45

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Section62

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Land being unregistered doesn't necessarily mean it isn't owned by someone.

Have the vendors been using this land exclusively since 2016, and is there any evidence of this?  What kind of land is it?

What does "isn’t included in sale" mean?  Are the vendors excluding this land from what you are buying?  If so, why are your solicitors suggesting an indemnity policy?

Land_Registry

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Adverse possession allows successive 'squatters' to accumulate the required number of years
If you are buying then indemnity insurance is a consideration alongside ensuring you have the required statement of truth from the sellers to cover their 9 years for example
A later application to register the unregistered land would not be costly from a registration perspective (under £50)
Do rely on your legal advice/rep here to answer your Qs and reassure you re the legal requirements which need to be met first 
Adverse possession of (1) unregistered land and (2) registered land where a right to be registered was acquired before 13 October 2003 (PG5) - GOV.UK

Kitts45

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Land being unregistered doesn't necessarily mean it isn't owned by someone.

Have the vendors been using this land exclusively since 2016, and is there any evidence of this?  What kind of land is it?

What does "isn’t included in sale" mean?  Are the vendors excluding this land from what you are buying?  If so, why are your solicitors suggesting an indemnity policy?

Hi, thank you for your comments.

Yes aware of this, I've been advised it could be the Highway but don't know at the stage and may never? This is all new to me so I don't know the ins and outs.

They have and have also applied for planning for a retaining wall and shrubs etc, it was pretty derelict looking before but the current owners have made it look very appealing. It's a parcel of land between the path and the front garden. It was described on the sales description as elevated cottage style garden with shrubs.

Due to it not being on the title deeds they can't include in the sale as the Sellers don't own that piece of land. Indemnity to cover any arising issues due to someone else other than the land owner trying to claim the land, that is what I believe it to be anyway.

Kitts45

Land_Registry said:

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Adverse possession allows successive 'squatters' to accumulate the required number of years
If you are buying then indemnity insurance is a consideration alongside ensuring you have the required statement of truth from the sellers to cover their 9 years for example
A later application to register the unregistered land would not be costly from a registration perspective (under £50)
Do rely on your legal advice/rep here to answer your Qs and reassure you re the legal requirements which need to be met first 

Thank you, really helpful

Section62

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Land being unregistered doesn't necessarily mean it isn't owned by someone.

Have the vendors been using this land exclusively since 2016, and is there any evidence of this?  What kind of land is it?

What does "isn’t included in sale" mean?  Are the vendors excluding this land from what you are buying?  If so, why are your solicitors suggesting an indemnity policy?

Hi, thank you for your comments.

Yes aware of this, I've been advised it could be the Highway but don't know at the stage and may never? This is all new to me so I don't know the ins and outs.

They have and have also applied for planning for a retaining wall and shrubs etc, it was pretty derelict looking before but the current owners have made it look very appealing. It's a parcel of land between the path and the front garden. It was described on the sales description as elevated cottage style garden with shrubs.

Due to it not being on the title deeds they can't include in the sale as the Sellers don't own that piece of land. Indemnity to cover any arising issues due to someone else other than the land owner trying to claim the land, that is what I believe it to be anyway.

What kind of path is it?  Is the path highway?

APing highway land can be tricky - and it has to be understood that highway rights are separate to land ownership... you can own the land, but it can also remain highway.

Was the land fenced off to stop highway users getting access to it?  Does it have any utilities (gas/water/electricity/phone) under or over it?

In terms of the planning application for the retaining wall, has this been approved or is it still pending?  Has the wall been built?  Did the council's highways department comment on the planning application?

Highway land isn't always registered, and the land under the highway (up to the centre line) may be owned by adjacent landowner, even if not shown on the title plan.  Make sure you are getting advice from a solicitor who fully understands the issues rather than one content to just solve problems with indemnity policies.  Ultimately think whether you'd go ahead with buying the property if you found out you couldn't AP this land.

Kitts45

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

@LandRegistry @Land_Registry
Hello All, we’re in the process of purchasing a property but have recently been informed that part of the land isn’t registered. This was included in the sale description but at this point we’re being told it isn’t included in sale. They have occupied the property since 2016 and advise that in 3 years time we could apply for adverse possession. Is this correct as we would be the new owners, would this not start all over and we have to wait 12 years? Unsure what to do at this stage, is it costly applying for this and then later on applying for complete ownership? Our solicitors are advising indemnity insurance, how well would this cover us? 

Thank you, appreciated.

Land being unregistered doesn't necessarily mean it isn't owned by someone.

Have the vendors been using this land exclusively since 2016, and is there any evidence of this?  What kind of land is it?

What does "isn’t included in sale" mean?  Are the vendors excluding this land from what you are buying?  If so, why are your solicitors suggesting an indemnity policy?

Hi, thank you for your comments.

Yes aware of this, I've been advised it could be the Highway but don't know at the stage and may never? This is all new to me so I don't know the ins and outs.

They have and have also applied for planning for a retaining wall and shrubs etc, it was pretty derelict looking before but the current owners have made it look very appealing. It's a parcel of land between the path and the front garden. It was described on the sales description as elevated cottage style garden with shrubs.

Due to it not being on the title deeds they can't include in the sale as the Sellers don't own that piece of land. Indemnity to cover any arising issues due to someone else other than the land owner trying to claim the land, that is what I believe it to be anyway.

What kind of path is it?  Is the path highway?

APing highway land can be tricky - and it has to be understood that highway rights are separate to land ownership... you can own the land, but it can also remain highway.

Was the land fenced off to stop highway users getting access to it?  Does it have any utilities (gas/water/electricity/phone) under or over it?

In terms of the planning application for the retaining wall, has this been approved or is it still pending?  Has the wall been built?  Did the council's highways department comment on the planning application?

Highway land isn't always registered, and the land under the highway (up to the centre line) may be owned by adjacent landowner, even if not shown on the title plan.  Make sure you are getting advice from a solicitor who fully understands the issues rather than one content to just solve problems with indemnity policies.  Ultimately think whether you'd go ahead with buying the property if you found out you couldn't AP this land.

Hi,
the path is just a normal footpath next to the road, the piece of land in question is above the path, it’s like a stepped walled garden up to the elevated garden. 

No one would be walking up it or using it as it isn’t a flat piece of land. 

There is a telegraph pole to the left of the property, the wire may go slightly across this bit of land but I’m not 100% sure.

The wall was granted planning permission so I wouldn’t have thought and utilities would be underneath due to footings that would’ve been put in place. 

Will check to see if Highway commented, thanks for this. 

Section62

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

What kind of path is it?  Is the path highway?

APing highway land can be tricky - and it has to be understood that highway rights are separate to land ownership... you can own the land, but it can also remain highway.

Was the land fenced off to stop highway users getting access to it?  Does it have any utilities (gas/water/electricity/phone) under or over it?

In terms of the planning application for the retaining wall, has this been approved or is it still pending?  Has the wall been built?  Did the council's highways department comment on the planning application?

Highway land isn't always registered, and the land under the highway (up to the centre line) may be owned by adjacent landowner, even if not shown on the title plan.  Make sure you are getting advice from a solicitor who fully understands the issues rather than one content to just solve problems with indemnity policies.  Ultimately think whether you'd go ahead with buying the property if you found out you couldn't AP this land.

Hi,
the path is just a normal footpath next to the road, the piece of land in question is above the path, it’s like a stepped walled garden up to the elevated garden. 

No one would be walking up it or using it as it isn’t a flat piece of land. 

There is a telegraph pole to the left of the property, the wire may go slightly across this bit of land but I’m not 100% sure.

The wall was granted planning permission so I wouldn’t have thought and utilities would be underneath due to footings that would’ve been put in place. 

Will check to see if Highway commented, thanks for this. 

So it sounds like a question of why this land wasn't included with the title of the property - of all the options it seems likely to be that the land is highway, or else there has been an error in the transfers/title plans at some point in time.  Roughly how old is the house, and is it part of a development/local authority build/or private?  Do any of the neighbours have a similar strip of land?

Kitts45

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

What kind of path is it?  Is the path highway?

APing highway land can be tricky - and it has to be understood that highway rights are separate to land ownership... you can own the land, but it can also remain highway.

Was the land fenced off to stop highway users getting access to it?  Does it have any utilities (gas/water/electricity/phone) under or over it?

In terms of the planning application for the retaining wall, has this been approved or is it still pending?  Has the wall been built?  Did the council's highways department comment on the planning application?

Highway land isn't always registered, and the land under the highway (up to the centre line) may be owned by adjacent landowner, even if not shown on the title plan.  Make sure you are getting advice from a solicitor who fully understands the issues rather than one content to just solve problems with indemnity policies.  Ultimately think whether you'd go ahead with buying the property if you found out you couldn't AP this land.

Hi,
the path is just a normal footpath next to the road, the piece of land in question is above the path, it’s like a stepped walled garden up to the elevated garden. 

No one would be walking up it or using it as it isn’t a flat piece of land. 

There is a telegraph pole to the left of the property, the wire may go slightly across this bit of land but I’m not 100% sure.

The wall was granted planning permission so I wouldn’t have thought and utilities would be underneath due to footings that would’ve been put in place. 

Will check to see if Highway commented, thanks for this. 

So it sounds like a question of why this land wasn't included with the title of the property - of all the options it seems likely to be that the land is highway, or else there has been an error in the transfers/title plans at some point in time.  Roughly how old is the house, and is it part of a development/local authority build/or private?  Do any of the neighbours have a similar strip of land?

It’s an old cottage we think late 1800’s. Not part of a development but it in a conservation area. 

Yes actually the neighbour looks to have a similar piece of land, they have put a small fence at the front of theirs, their house is also elevated. Many thanks 

Section62

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

Kitts45 said:

Section62 said:

What kind of path is it?  Is the path highway?

APing highway land can be tricky - and it has to be understood that highway rights are separate to land ownership... you can own the land, but it can also remain highway.

Was the land fenced off to stop highway users getting access to it?  Does it have any utilities (gas/water/electricity/phone) under or over it?

In terms of the planning application for the retaining wall, has this been approved or is it still pending?  Has the wall been built?  Did the council's highways department comment on the planning application?

Highway land isn't always registered, and the land under the highway (up to the centre line) may be owned by adjacent landowner, even if not shown on the title plan.  Make sure you are getting advice from a solicitor who fully understands the issues rather than one content to just solve problems with indemnity policies.  Ultimately think whether you'd go ahead with buying the property if you found out you couldn't AP this land.

Hi,
the path is just a normal footpath next to the road, the piece of land in question is above the path, it’s like a stepped walled garden up to the elevated garden. 

No one would be walking up it or using it as it isn’t a flat piece of land. 

There is a telegraph pole to the left of the property, the wire may go slightly across this bit of land but I’m not 100% sure.

The wall was granted planning permission so I wouldn’t have thought and utilities would be underneath due to footings that would’ve been put in place. 

Will check to see if Highway commented, thanks for this. 

So it sounds like a question of why this land wasn't included with the title of the property - of all the options it seems likely to be that the land is highway, or else there has been an error in the transfers/title plans at some point in time.  Roughly how old is the house, and is it part of a development/local authority build/or private?  Do any of the neighbours have a similar strip of land?

It’s an old cottage we think late 1800’s. Not part of a development but it in a conservation area. 

Yes actually the neighbour looks to have a similar piece of land, they have put a small fence at the front of theirs, their house is also elevated. Many thanks 

In which case, unless the council purchased a strip of land to widen or improve the road, there's a good chance the property owns the land up to the centreline of the highway.  However, the slope may be highway which is why the red line boundary has been drawn where it is.

I could be wrong, but I suspect you'll have problems getting AP.  It may be the highway authority decide the highway boundary is at the back of the footway or the bottom of the slope (as was), in which case you may be able to use the land without needing AP.  But it would probably be sensible to see what you can do to get the title tidied up so the red line boundary accurately shows the true position.

Any comments from the highway authority about the planning application may give an idea which way this might go.

Land_Registry

Before widening your own detective work do speak to your conveyancer/legal rep. 
Whilst trying to understand the ownership/highway issues and more is understandable you do not want to jeopardise things as they stand as you may negate your options re indemnity insurance. 
Such insurance is there to cover the risk of a legal owner coming forward and by doing your own detective work you can be seen as increasing that risk - the legal advice you have been given to date appears to be sound so please do rely on it and get answers to your Qs from the legal rep.