help needed for a problem with jet2

Hoenir

silvercar said:

 (I know how illogical it is to have a crew at every airport, but those are the rules).

You do realise that a commercial pilot requires specific training and certification for every type of aircraft they fly ! 

Rostering crew is so simple...........

bagand96

silvercar said:

(I know how illogical it is to have a crew at every airport, but those are the rules).

Do the rules state that airlines must have back up crews available at every outstation in their network ready at any time just in case? 

TELLIT01

silvercar said:

(I know how illogical it is to have a crew at every airport, but those are the rules).

Are you able to provide a link to those regulations?  

Just using Jet 2 as an example.  They fly to 75 destinations from 13 UK airports.  That would mean having nearly 90 sets of crew (something over 500 people) sitting twiddling their thumbs 24x7.  I do not believe there are any regulations requiring that, unless solid evidence to the contrary can be provided.

Westin

TELLIT01 said:

silvercar said:

(I know how illogical it is to have a crew at every airport, but those are the rules).

Are you able to provide a link to those regulations?  

Just using Jet 2 as an example.  They fly to 75 destinations from 13 UK airports.  That would mean having nearly 90 sets of crew (something over 500 people) sitting twiddling their thumbs 24x7.  I do not believe there are any regulations requiring that, unless solid evidence to the contrary can be provided.

Actually even more.  Flight deck staff will be type rated on the Boeing 737 or the Airbus A320/A321 family of aircraft-not both.  So would it be logical to have both Boeing and Airbus rated staff sitting at every out station just waiting on the off chance of flight disruption?

I don’t believe there is such a regulation either.

It may well be an expectation that an airline has a certain amount of stand by crew coverage at main operating bases but I don’t think any expectation of crew ‘down route’ sitting around on standby.  

NoodleDoodleMan

My understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that an airline should have such contigency plans in place for aircrew if they having sufficient and appropriate forewarning of a problem likely to occur.

The precise criteria and details of that scenario is a different issue of course.

I also suspect that aircrew maximum duty hours may include time waiting around on standby - not just time in the air ? Maybe somebody "in the know" can clarify ?

I have been told by a Jet2 cabin crew member that we met on another airline flight that they have a aircraft and crew on a rota standyby duty in the Canaries in case of a drama. 

Of course those islands are principal medium haul locations from across the UK, therefore such a precautionary measure probably makes good commercial sense - rather than to have to accommodate passengers in a hotel with meals etc. and to have to reroute another plane to bring them home.

It's unrealistic and impracticable to expect airlines to cover every route they serve. 

pattycake

NoodleDoodleMan said:

My understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that an airline should have such contigency plans in place for aircrew if they having sufficient and appropriate forewarning of a problem likely to occur.

The precise criteria and details of that scenario is a different issue of course.

I also suspect that aircrew maximum duty hours may include time waiting around on standby - not just time in the air ? Maybe somebody "in the know" can clarify ?

I have been told by a Jet2 cabin crew member that we met on another airline flight that they have a aircraft and crew on a rota standyby duty in the Canaries in case of a drama. 

Of course those islands are principal medium haul locations from across the UK, therefore such a precautionary measure probably makes good commercial sense - rather than to have to accommodate passengers in a hotel with meals etc. and to have to reroute another plane to bring them home.

It's unrealistic and impracticable to expect airlines to cover every route they serve. 

A couple of years ago, we were returning from Tenerife. The incoming flight was diverted to Lanzarote due to drunken passengers fighting and threatening the crew.  This was an EasyJet flight leaving Manchester at 7am!  The culprits were offloaded in Lanza and the plane landed in Tenerife about 2 hours late.  But then it was deemed the crew were out of hours.  A new crew was flown out from Gatwick and the upshot was we had 14 hours at Tenerife airport.  

We were given a voucher for around €14 each to spend at the airport.  That does not go far in 14 hours.  We tried to claim compensation but EasyJet said it was extraordinary circumstances so they were not liable.  It’s the worst delay I’ve experienced in over 40 years of air travel and was horrible!

NoodleDoodleMan

Another satisfied Easyjet customer !!! 

bagand96

NoodleDoodleMan said:

Another satisfied Easyjet customer !!! 

Keeps you happy, hey!

NoodleDoodleMan said: 

I have been told by a Jet2 cabin crew member that we met on another airline flight that they have a aircraft and crew on a rota standyby duty in the Canaries in case of a drama. 

Of course those islands are principal medium haul locations from across the UK, therefore such a precautionary measure probably makes good commercial sense - rather than to have to accommodate passengers in a hotel with meals etc. and to have to reroute another plane to bring them home.

It's unrealistic and impracticable to expect airlines to cover every route they serve. 

Jet2 used to have a standby aircraft and crew in both the Canary Islands as well as mainland Spain (I want to say Malaga but it may have been elsewhere)

The logic being they could launch the rescue aircraft to any Canary Island, Spanish/Balearic/Portugal airport to pick up a return UK flight and fly it back without getting into EC261 territory.

I don't think it's currently the case. A UK registered aircraft and licensed crew now causes issues, I also suspect that's a convenient excuse for them also to make a "business decision" 

la531983

pattycake said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

My understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that an airline should have such contigency plans in place for aircrew if they having sufficient and appropriate forewarning of a problem likely to occur.

The precise criteria and details of that scenario is a different issue of course.

I also suspect that aircrew maximum duty hours may include time waiting around on standby - not just time in the air ? Maybe somebody "in the know" can clarify ?

I have been told by a Jet2 cabin crew member that we met on another airline flight that they have a aircraft and crew on a rota standyby duty in the Canaries in case of a drama. 

Of course those islands are principal medium haul locations from across the UK, therefore such a precautionary measure probably makes good commercial sense - rather than to have to accommodate passengers in a hotel with meals etc. and to have to reroute another plane to bring them home.

It's unrealistic and impracticable to expect airlines to cover every route they serve. 

We were given a voucher for around €14 each to spend at the airport.  That does not go far in 14 hours.  We tried to claim compensation but EasyJet said it was extraordinary circumstances so they were not liable.  

100% correct, not sure what the issue is, not their fault humans cant behave themselves.

Ayr_Rage

I really don't understand how people think any airline can afford to leave a multi million pound asset as a spare away from their hubs.

How do you fly spare crew out if your own next flight is full?

Bump at least 6 passengers or pay for them to go with another airline, best of luck with that at the height of summer.

If crew go out of hours the effective solution is what happened here, they get their required rest, the airline pays for some extra (remote) parking for their aluminium tube and flies when everyone is legal again.