RTS meter replacement booked for September

RebTech

I foolishly believed Scottish Power when they said they'd let me know when I could book an appointment. Today I finally checked the site and found the only dates available were 22 and 23 September! So I'm booked in for the afternoon of the 22nd and wondering what will happen between RTS switch off on 30 June and then... any comments/advice?

Edit: I just realised what I booked was a smart meter installation, not an RTS replacement. Of course these could/should be the same thing, but maybe the reason I haven't heard from them is they still don't know exactly what to do in cases like mine -- I believe it might be nonstandard.

Rodders53

Nothing much.

Your RTS meter will be programmed with a default switching time schedule over the air before the LF radio signal is switched off.  (It may already have been Programmed with a 'final' default schedule).  Worst case once off is the internal time clock drifts and switching happens at the wrong moment.

Radio teleswitch – Energy Networks Association (ENA) describes a bit about how it all works/worked.

RebTech

Thanks a lot @Rodders53 , I was tending to believe the scare stories about heating being always on or always off etc.

Ildhund

Rodders53 said:

Your RTS meter will be programmed with a default switching time schedule over the air before the LF radio signal is switched off.  

I haven't heard this before. Do you have a reference for it?

All that I could find suggested that the supply will continue to operate in the same state as it was in before the switch-off. This isn't unambiguous, because it might mean 'if the switched circuit was on, it will stay on' etc., or 'There is an on/off schedule inside the teleswitch which will be used if the signal is no longer received'. It would be good to be able to say categorically that a default switching schedule will be deployed to all RTS systems before the switch-off.

QrizB

Ildhund said:

Rodders53 said:

Your RTS meter will be programmed with a default switching time schedule over the air before the LF radio signal is switched off.  

I haven't heard this before. Do you have a reference for it?

I've not heard of anything regarding a special "default" schedule but it might be a bit of a red herring.

The RTS transmission contains a daily switching schedule for the meters. In principle, this is persistent; if there's no transmission the following day, the existing schedule will repeat.

The uncertainty over how any individual RTS meter will react is because these are all quite elderly electronic systems and are approaching, or have already exceeded, their intended service life.

Rodders53

TIldhund said: I haven't heard this before. Do you have a reference for it?

Read the links in my post?

The RadioTeleswitch specification (BS7647) lays down specific formats for its user message contents. Two message types are defined:

• command (or immediate) which has priority of broadcast, and on receipt immediately sets a Teleswitch (RCs) internal switches to required status, overriding any programmed status;

• programme, which updates or refreshes the operating program stored within a Teleswitch (i.e. internal switches will not change status until required by the program).

An ‘immediate’ instruction can take one or two minutes from initiation of a request at the terminal of a user, depending on other traffic on the data system, and is intended to allow fast, broadcast load shedding.
The system’s ability to offer users both programmed and immediate broadcast control have enabled companies using the system to provide weather-related control of electricity storage heaters in specialised arrangements such as ‘budget warmth’ and ‘heat with rent’ schemes.

Simple enough?  The stored "operating programme" will be run!

WHY people want to spread scare-mongering rumours when the system was designed by Engineers to perform a function and would need to allow for fault (no data transmitted) functionality I do not know,

One issue will be the same as ancient time-clock controls as the RTS internal clock may lose sync over a long time (clock oscillator drift) and/or reset after an extended power cut if an internal battery (or supercapacitor more likely) runs out.

Scot_39

Firstly - its now widely known the 30th of June is not a hard UK wide cut off date - its at least now being openly disclosed as the start date - of a phased switch off.

If you havent been contacted are you 100% sure your RTS - as at other suppliers many with older multirate deals on non RTS meters have been contacted.

But not clear from posts what that phasing entails.

Google AI still produces September if you search with a suitable question - but its not always 100%. So if do "phased rts switch off september"  it comes back with

"starting on June 30, 2025, and continuing through September"

but not if you do august or october.

Scottish Power specifically have been informing some of their customers in certain areas at least - they are working to later end dates - but cannot quickly find the source of that end date. As above with the right search trigger google AI still talks about September - so I guess its out there or was out there somewhere for it to find it.

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/support-centre/rts-meters

And specifically

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/smart-meters/meterupgrade

Two on line methods - or a telephone number to call - 0800 074 0058

The little bug on the second SP link is coincidentally circling an appointment date on the calendar - in Sep - maybe coincidence - maybe not.

As you have a date - you could phone and check with CS.

I am not sure if they will be able to prioritise an earlier date - they probably were aware you had RTS though when called - but if you have the time - and it relieves the worry - I'd call them to check... 

As above - beware the scaremongering - but also beware their are a whole range of RTS devices out their - so problems are not impossible (even if designed out in theory)

I know homes with appointments in July / Aug - who were told at least verbally by CS not to worry - that it is ahead of the proposed phased plans (one at least booked months ago - as was aunts old home just before sold by cousins in early spring - still on one of their old 3 rate specials - Comfort + ... ??).

RebTech

Replying to Scot_39:

Thanks for the info.

I'm sure it's RTS, there's a box labelled accordingly on the meter board, also I saw somewhere ages ago I'm on "Comfort Control".

The appointment was made on the web, are you saying I should phone to check? I assume CS is the installation company, so on a different number, would SP give me that?

Spoonie_Turtle

Scot_39 said:

Google AI still produces September if you search with a suitable question - but its not always 100%. So if do "phased rts switch off september"  it comes back with

"starting on June 30, 2025, and continuing through September"

but not if you do august or october.

Scottish Power specifically have been informing some of their customers in certain areas at least - they are working to later end dates - but cannot quickly find the source of that end date. As above with the right search trigger google AI still talks about September - so I guess its out there or was out there somewhere for it to find it.

Or just ignore the AI and do it the old-fashioned(!) way of looking at actual web results for your query.  Then you can easily ignore unreliable or outdated sources and just focus on what might be accurate.

Scot_39

No CS - Customer Services / Support - or at least the 0800 number on the meter upgrade web page - if thats a different number / team.

If your on one of Comfort tariffs - (guessing your Comfortplus Control in their list) - including dynamic weathercall - they probably know RTS.

But as above they might be able to confirm your date within the revised schedule.  

Ildhund

Rodders53 said:
The stored "operating programme" will be run!

Yes, but you mentioned a 'default' programme. I mentioned 'the on/off schedule', and I understand that this persists until it's changed. This means that it's the last schedule before shut-down that will be used after shut-down. If that happens to be like the one deployed to weather-wise systems in southern England today (no heating at all … ), there will be some unhappy punters when the temperature drops again. This isn't scaremongering - I just don't see any reference to a default programme anywhere, and I can't imagine what such a programme would look like.