Letter from MIB. Fine for un-insured vehicle sitting on my own drive!

Cad169

Hi All. I recently purchased a damaged 2022 BMW 4 Series car, intending to repair it on my driveway. It’s a fairly large drive, and the car easily sits on it without touching any part of the highway. It's almost finished now, but to complete this, I’ll also have to drive it back and forth to the body shop, plus get the four wheels aligned. I will also need to get it fully serviced before it becomes my daily driver.

In order to drive it on the road, I have taxed it on a monthly direct debit….I can also insure it on an hourly basis via Cuvva (a brilliant app!). In other words, the car, when it’s driven on the road, is fully legal (it is already inspected and MOT’d prior to purchase). I also insure my present car, so I cannot afford to insure two cars at once....thus only wanting to insure the BM if and when I have to...hourly cover is surprisingly cheap.

This whole process takes a while, and the time in between these small drives will be weeks by the time you wait for parts, and as to when the vehicle can be booked in.

Coming to the point!...I have just received a letter from MIB (Motor Insurance Bureau) stating I will be liable to a fine if I don’t insure the car. As I understand it, this is because the car is taxed but not insured…. yet it is insured when I need to drive it to the different motor factors. To not have a fine, apparently, I need to have to insure it permanently, even though I may only drive it for two hours over the next couple of months….or….put it on sorn, take it off sorn, tax it to drive it an hour…. put it back on sorn again…. take it off sorn, tax it to drive it an hour….put it back on sorn again…. Ad infinitum.

That’s a lot of wasted car tax! But that’s not the point…why should I HAVE to insure my car when it's sitting on my own land…is it not my choice to insure it, only when it travels on the public highway? What law states that I have to insure a vehicle when it sits 50 feet from a public highway on my own land?

I know I will have to do the stop-start sorn / tax thing….but why!!

 

Okell

AIUI the law requires you either (1) to SORN your vehicle, or (2) to have it continuously insured and taxed.

If it isn't SORN'd it has to be taxed and insured.

I can't quote the letter of the law but I'm sure somebody will be along and do so shortly

[Edit:  DVLA reminds motorists of new motor insurance law - GOV.UK

Continuous insurance enforcement | The AA

Continuous Insurance Enforcement at MIB   ]

paul_c123

Cad169 said:

............ I cannot afford to insure two cars at once.............

 

You can't have two cars on the road if that's the case. You'll need to either SORN it and complete all the repairs without it going on the road, or something else. Can you afford to transport it to-from the bodyshop? Wheel alignment can wait until its on the road, and you can service it on the drive surely? Where did you buy it from? Did you receive the V5? Was it registered in the trade at the time?

Another option might be to have temporary cover tagged on to your existing, but for longer than the few hours that Cuvva specialises in.

paul_c123

ETA The law is the "continuous insurance" legislation, I forget which Act it is. 

Aretnap

Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended) section 144A.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/144A

It's a pain but to stay legal you do have to either keep it insured, or do the unSORN/reSORN thing whenever you actually drive it in the road.

DullGreyGuy

Cad169 said:

Hi All. I recently purchased a damaged 2022 BMW 4 Series car, intending to repair it on my driveway. It’s a fairly large drive, and the car easily sits on it without touching any part of the highway. It's almost finished now, but to complete this, I’ll also have to drive it back and forth to the body shop, plus get the four wheels aligned. I will also need to get it fully serviced before it becomes my daily driver.

In order to drive it on the road, I have taxed it on a monthly direct debit….I can also insure it on an hourly basis via Cuvva (a brilliant app!). In other words, the car, when it’s driven on the road, is fully legal (it is already inspected and MOT’d prior to purchase). I also insure my present car, so I cannot afford to insure two cars at once....thus only wanting to insure the BM if and when I have to...hourly cover is surprisingly cheap.

This whole process takes a while, and the time in between these small drives will be weeks by the time you wait for parts, and as to when the vehicle can be booked in.

Coming to the point!...I have just received a letter from MIB (Motor Insurance Bureau) stating I will be liable to a fine if I don’t insure the car. As I understand it, this is because the car is taxed but not insured…. yet it is insured when I need to drive it to the different motor factors. To not have a fine, apparently, I need to have to insure it permanently, even though I may only drive it for two hours over the next couple of months….or….put it on sorn, take it off sorn, tax it to drive it an hour…. put it back on sorn again…. take it off sorn, tax it to drive it an hour….put it back on sorn again…. Ad infinitum.

That’s a lot of wasted car tax! But that’s not the point…why should I HAVE to insure my car when it's sitting on my own land…is it not my choice to insure it, only when it travels on the public highway? What law states that I have to insure a vehicle when it sits 50 feet from a public highway on my own land?

I know I will have to do the stop-start sorn / tax thing….but why!!

Because the law was changed to say if it's not SORNed it must be insured continuously. This made life much easier for the enforcement of insurance requirements as it's just comparing two databases -v- the old world where someone would have to catch your vehicle on the road without insurance meaning people could in theory go years just pootling around their local area and parking on their driveway when not driving and be highly unlikely to be caught in suburbia 

Cad169

Thank you for all your replies, it is very much appreciated.

Paul_c123, thanks….But I can have two cars on the road, the one that is currently my daily (that will be sold when the BM is finished) and the BM that is totally roadworthy now, but needs a few paint blow overs, a service, and a wheel alignment. As long as it is taxed, insured, and mot’d, and I have the log book registered to my name and address, its perfectly legal to drive on the public highway, is it not?

And yes, I’ve been buying damaged and repairing high-end motorcycles for years (that are a hell of a lot more complicated than cars), so I do know all my legal purchasing responsibilities. Just to confirm, yes, I can get all that stuff done on the daily, but there are a lot of other mods I want to do. I’d rather get the car completely finished before it finally gets put back on the road, and a lot of those mods require parts from all over the world and will be fitted in between the external motor factors stuff. The timeline you see on ‘Mat Armstrong’ and the like, does not exactly relate to reality! The car was bought direct from a reputable insurance company, yes, I do have the V5 all registered in my name, and yes, all was registered, HPI’d and Car Verticalled prior to purchase.   

I totally understand what I have to do, I totally understand what is being asked of me…. what I DON’T understand is the why / audacity of the forcing me to insure a vehicle that is on my own land. I think DullGreyGuy is closest to informing me of the reason; however, the Conspiracist in me would also believe it is a conscious effort to make it harder for self-repairers to do what they do.

 

 

paul_c123

You said yourself you can't afford to insure both at once. If you can, you can have both.

Another route you could take is to NOT register the cars in your name, but keep it "in the trade" and only register it (to yourself) once all the work is complete and its ready to be used daily. For the occasional trips on the road, you'd need trade plates, and for trade plates you'd need a motor trade policy - have you looked into this?

It offers a much more convenient way of working when you have >1 vehicle. A side benefit is, if you don't actually need/use a car that often, you can just run plates and pay one set of road tax too.

TooManyPoints

This is straightforward. 

If you are the Registered Keeper of a vehicle, you must either declare it (and keep it) off the road by means of a SORN or you must tax and insure it.

There is no in-between of the variety you want - i.e. to tax it but only insure it when you want to drive it.

To do what you want to do you will have to declare it SORN when not using it (which means the tax is no longer valid and you will be refunded any whole months remaining) and keep it off road

When you want to drive it you will have to tax it (from the first of the current month) and insure it, If you only insure it for a day, at the end of that day you will have to take it off the road and SORN it again. As before, the tax will no longer be valid and you will receive a refund for any whole months remaining.

Essentially this is not a viable proposition unless you can afford to tax the car for a month every time you want to drive it for a day.

....what I DON’T understand is the why / audacity of the forcing me to insure a vehicle that is on my own land. 

The "why" is because s144A of the Road Traffic Act requires it. It doesn't matter where you keep it; if it's not SORN it must be taxed and insured.

S144A was introduced (in 2011 IIRC) as a a measure to help reduce the large number of vehicles being driven uninsured. Prior to its introduction, it was necessary to actually catch somebody driving it. As you have discovered, s144A makes that unnecessary.  

For the occasional trips on the road, you'd need trade plates, and for trade plates you'd need a motor trade policy - have you looked into this?

Trade plates are only issued to bona fide motor dealers, motor traders or vehicle testers. The full eligibility criteria are these:

You can apply for trade licence plates if you’re a motor dealer, motor trader or vehicle tester. This means your business does one or more of the following:

 • sells vehicles • manufactures or repairs vehicles • tests other people’s vehicles on public roads 
If you collect or deliver vehicles, you’ll also be eligible as long as either:
 • this is the only thing your business does • you also manufacture or repair vehicles 
As well as that they cost £171 per year and you would have to buy a trade insurance policy.

So a non-runner for the sort of personal use you require

paul_c123

"Repairs vehicles"

k12479

Cad169 said:

...the Conspiracist in me would also believe it is a conscious effort to make it harder for self-repairers to do what they do.

The more logical conclusion is the system as-is captures >99% of the problem with some inconvenience caused to the niche <1% of cases. Many people are SORN'd (with insurance or without), whilst all on the road should be insured. You seem to want the best of both worlds. With respect, if the cost of insurance is so onerous, then it seems reasonable to ensure the public is protected if you forget or 'forget' to get cover each time.