Approaching crunch time

Altior

I have a number of physical ailments, I won't detail them all here, however I have had a number of investigations which showed an abnormal biology (likely congenital) and an operation. The hope was that the operation would improve things but it was one step forward and one step back, effectively. 

I am, for all intents and purposes, now limited to working from home. I have had an external occupational health assessment last year, and the outcome of that was reasonable work from home adjustment and revisit after six months. 

We don't have a permanent fully remote policy, even though I have pretty much worked from home successfully since lockdown. Work are definitely getting impatient, and I can tell that they are going to expect some in office attendance pretty soon. They are reluctant to book the follow up occupational health assessment, I believe as they feel the recommendation will be continuing with the wfh adjustment. Which they don't want! 

So as per the title, I am approaching crunch time.

The questions are, is it better to jump or be pushed. Google tells me that I could be entitled to JSA or ESA, however if I leave work wilfully, because I can no longer permanently wfh, it's not entirely clear which one, if any, are viable. Permanent remote jobs are not easy to obtain, however I would like to remain working for a few more years if possible. I am 53 however, not a vintage people are falling over themselves to employ anyway. 

Another factor is that I have substantial savings, in the tens of thousands. Some locked away in long term cash bonds. 

I feel I am likely to have up to 6 months max to play with, as nothing formal has been initiated as yet. But the mood change is palpable, I suspect they will start the process pretty soon. 

peteuk

Hate to say this, but the only thing really stopping you from going back to work, is you.  If you issues are likely to be congenital, are they getting worst?  Did you have these pre Covid?

I am equally unsure why you would be made fit to work from home only.But that’s not the issue….

Not sure what your question is? but I will try to answer your general situation.

Your Employer should make reasonable adjustments for medical conditions, Im not sure if this would include working from home.  If they take disciplinary action then if the OT report is robust then I’m sure you’d have a strong situation to contest this.  When is the 6 months up?

if you leave or are fired then you should be able to claim new JSE, this is not means tested but you will have need to pay NI for the last two full years.   Other benefits like UC are means tested and as you’ve more than £16K in capital means you will not be able to claim it.

once you capital is below the £16K limit you’ll be able to claim them.

You pr post is not clear, have you had your surgery or waiting for it.  You’re somewhat expecting things to happen, but what happens if your OT review says you can go back to work?  Have you asked about home working?

Spoonie_Turtle

When I was too ill to work I was advised not to leave but to go through the whole process, as it carries more weight for being assessed (which in your case would be for ESA).  Also with the job market at the moment, it would be silly to leave a job you are capable of doing from home to then struggle to find something else.

Your employer may not like you working from home but unless they have real reason to be unsatisfied with your work … tough?  If you're doing your job just fine then they have no legitimate reason to say you can't.  And basically their options are to make the accommodations recommended by a qualified medical professional (the OT) to enable you to continue doing your job, find alternative duties for you, or have you off sick - whilst still paying you.

Obviously it's ultimately your decision but I would recommend just sticking with it, and if they decide to revoke the reasonable accommodation to which it sounds like you are legally entitled (as in it sounds like you are disabled per the Equality Act 2010) that's on them to justify.

You might also find https://www.acas.org.uk/equality-and-wellbeing and their helpline useful.  You need to know your rights in order to make an informed decision whether to fight for those rights, if it comes to it.

Altior

Thanks folks.

The predominate questions are is it better to be managed out of the business, or quit ahead of this. And what would be the likely entitlements in either scenario. Many years ago it used to be problematic if you 'made yourself' unemployed, ie quit, but in this instance it would be due to demonstrable health conditions. I had a brief dalliance with being a jobseeker many many years ago, from my recollection you were given a period where you were permitted to seek a role that was similar to your previous work, then maybe 6 months later had to apply and accept any work that was legitimately viable. I soon got two job offers so it was not relevant in the end. 

My operation was successful in that it achieved the outcome that was intended, but I am living with complications that occurred post op. So as I alluded to, it is effectively one step forward and one step back. I would love to be able to physically get back to how I was in 2019, this seems only a pipedream right now. 

I'd rather not go into too much detail in regard to why I am effectively forced to wfh, as it's quite personal, as I noted though this is the recommendation from the independent OH professional. If I am granted the follow up they originally recommended, I'm confident they would recommend the same adjustment (ie a continuation of the current adjustment).

powerspowers

Your employer should make reasonable adjustments but it’s up to them as to what is reasonable. Are you doing the same job at home as you would in the workplace, is there a difference in your outputs? Is there anyway to make going into the work place, even just for team meetings etc feasible? Ie travel arrangements, long breaks, private space? It’s not always possible - don’t feel you need to give medical details here. Is there another job in the company that suits wfh better? 

In terms of whether you should jump or not, I’d just keep going, don’t make it easy for your employer by leaving. Your current wage and pension contributions are likely to be higher than sickness benefits and you don’t want to erode your savings which you may need if things get worse, or to retire early. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Well JSA is only 6 months of payments now and I'm not sure about any grace period of looking for jobs in certain areas.  £92.05/wk

ESA is a year of payments, unless you're assessed as having Limited Capability for Work and Work-Related Activity (i.e. being put in the Support Group) and then it's indefinite.  You won't be made to look for work but you may have to engage in work-related activity which may include going to appointments and possibly going on courses, unless put into the Support Group.  £92.05/wk, rising to £140.55 after 13 weeks if you are put into the Support Group after assessment.

Universal Credit has replaced income-based JSA and is only available if you have below £16,000 in savings in total (disregarding any money in pension schemes).  Basic levels of help similar to above but reduced by savings between £6,000 and £16,000 and any other income.

You are right that leaving work because of health conditions would be accepted as good reason, but as the previous poster says financially it will be much better to stay for as long as you can.  I also don't think leaving for health reasons is compatible with JSA, you would have to claim ESA.  Although not being required to look for work doesn't mean you're not allowed to, you would be able to on your own terms.

peteuk

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Well JSA is only 6 months of payments now and I'm not sure about any grace period of looking for jobs in certain areas.  £92.05/wk

ESA is a year of payments, unless you're assessed as having Limited Capability for Work and Work-Related Activity (i.e. being put in the Support Group) and then it's indefinite.  You won't be made to look for work but you may have to engage in work-related activity which may include going to appointments and possibly going on courses, unless put into the Support Group.  £92.05/wk, rising to £140.55 after 13 weeks if you are put into the Support Group after assessment.

Universal Credit has replaced income-based JSA and is only available if you have below £16,000 in savings in total (disregarding any money in pension schemes).  Basic levels of help similar to above but reduced by savings between £6,000 and £16,000 and any other income.

You are right that leaving work because of health conditions would be accepted as good reason, but as the previous poster says financially it will be much better to stay for as long as you can.  I also don't think leaving for health reasons is compatible with JSA, you would have to claim ESA.  Although not being required to look for work doesn't mean you're not allowed to, you would be able to on your own terms.

But is the OP leaving because of their health conditions, they suggest they are fully capable of forfilling the role, just from home whcih the company currently doesnt allow...although I suspect the OP has done so since 2020, given the scant info I question why now is this an issue. 

OP I get you dont want to fully disclose your medical problems, 100% but it is extreemly difficult to give you the full and correct advice without know the full details, so therefore I would expect a level of the advice is not 100% accurate to be taken into account.  

How do you function in a day to day basis, shopping etc. Who paid for the OH review, does your employer accept this report and its "indepenant" finding?  Did you ever go back to the office after covid. 

Spoonie_Turtle

peteuk said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Well JSA is only 6 months of payments now and I'm not sure about any grace period of looking for jobs in certain areas.  £92.05/wk

ESA is a year of payments, unless you're assessed as having Limited Capability for Work and Work-Related Activity (i.e. being put in the Support Group) and then it's indefinite.  You won't be made to look for work but you may have to engage in work-related activity which may include going to appointments and possibly going on courses, unless put into the Support Group.  £92.05/wk, rising to £140.55 after 13 weeks if you are put into the Support Group after assessment.

Universal Credit has replaced income-based JSA and is only available if you have below £16,000 in savings in total (disregarding any money in pension schemes).  Basic levels of help similar to above but reduced by savings between £6,000 and £16,000 and any other income.

You are right that leaving work because of health conditions would be accepted as good reason, but as the previous poster says financially it will be much better to stay for as long as you can.  I also don't think leaving for health reasons is compatible with JSA, you would have to claim ESA.  Although not being required to look for work doesn't mean you're not allowed to, you would be able to on your own terms.

But is the OP leaving because of their health conditions, they suggest they are fully capable of forfilling the role, just from home whcih the company currently doesnt allow...although I suspect the OP has done so since 2020, given the scant info I question why now is this an issue. 

OP I get you dont want to fully disclose your medical problems, 100% but it is extreemly difficult to give you the full and correct advice without know the full details, so therefore I would expect a level of the advice is not 100% accurate to be taken into account.  

How do you function in a day to day basis, shopping etc. Who paid for the OH review, does your employer accept this report and its "indepenant" finding?  Did you ever go back to the office after covid. 

As I understand it they're just fine doing their job from home, which they have done for 5+ years, it's just they can sense the employer for some reason wanting return to office, and are now investigating their options should work insist on no longer working from home.  If the updated OH assessment were to recommend continuing to WFH, I've already outlined the employer's options (accept, or refuse and have OP off sick and have to go through the capability process.  Or they could in theory accept and then find some other reason to terminate OP's employment - but they'd still have to justify that).

I don't think it matters how OP manages in other areas of life, because clearly the medical professionals involved decided that WFH was necessary - and OP evidently agrees since the prospect of having to return to the office is making them seriously consider leaving.  I don't understand why anyone here would question that.

Altior

Like a lot of businesses, we were initially pretty relaxed about wfh post covid, as everyone did it full time for nearly two years. Nobody was forced back initially as they thought people would still be frightened of getting covid. But the bosses eventually wanted to swing the pendulum back to hybrid working. So now there's a mandatory proportion of the working week where attendance is expected. They'll work around it for exceptions, but that's the default expectation.

So yes since March 2020 I've only had a small number of days in office, maybe 30. And that was when it was more relaxed, so we only needed to be in for a few hours. I actually got a new leader and she sent me home from the office when she saw I was struggling. That was the last time I was in. A lot has changed since then, they are much more draconian about it and everyone is monitored. 

Personally I don't leave the house at all for anything social, or shopping for example, everything is online/home delivery. I do about 500 miles a year in my car and that's medical appointments etc, anything that can't be done from home. As one off I can manage it, but it takes some forward planning and preparation.

The fundamentals of my role can definitely be done from home, I am autistic and I work best that way anyway, and don't need anyone's help. They would argue, to fully achieve what they would prefer from my role, it would need some engaging in in person meetings etc and passing on knowledge to others in the office still gaining experience etc. I'm no longer interested in those things and wouldn't do it anyway. 

The independent OH was initiated by the business. I was initially sceptical, but it ended up valuable and he agreed if I could achieve my core work commitments from home that should continue, to be reviewed in another six months. I have asked for the follow up OH as he requested in the original report, but I've not heard back about it as yet. My strong suspicion is they wouldn't want a recommendation of another six months' adjustment, and that's most likely what the outcome would be. But that's just speculation on my part.  

Altior

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Well JSA is only 6 months of payments now and I'm not sure about any grace period of looking for jobs in certain areas.  £92.05/wk

ESA is a year of payments, unless you're assessed as having Limited Capability for Work and Work-Related Activity (i.e. being put in the Support Group) and then it's indefinite.  You won't be made to look for work but you may have to engage in work-related activity which may include going to appointments and possibly going on courses, unless put into the Support Group.  £92.05/wk, rising to £140.55 after 13 weeks if you are put into the Support Group after assessment.

Universal Credit has replaced income-based JSA and is only available if you have below £16,000 in savings in total (disregarding any money in pension schemes).  Basic levels of help similar to above but reduced by savings between £6,000 and £16,000 and any other income.

You are right that leaving work because of health conditions would be accepted as good reason, but as the previous poster says financially it will be much better to stay for as long as you can.  I also don't think leaving for health reasons is compatible with JSA, you would have to claim ESA.  Although not being required to look for work doesn't mean you're not allowed to, you would be able to on your own terms.

Thanks. 

If it's £16K max savings for ESA or JSA, I won't be able to get either anyway 

sheramber

Spoonie_Turtle said:

peteuk said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Well JSA is only 6 months of payments now and I'm not sure about any grace period of looking for jobs in certain areas.  £92.05/wk

ESA is a year of payments, unless you're assessed as having Limited Capability for Work and Work-Related Activity (i.e. being put in the Support Group) and then it's indefinite.  You won't be made to look for work but you may have to engage in work-related activity which may include going to appointments and possibly going on courses, unless put into the Support Group.  £92.05/wk, rising to £140.55 after 13 weeks if you are put into the Support Group after assessment.

Universal Credit has replaced income-based JSA and is only available if you have below £16,000 in savings in total (disregarding any money in pension schemes).  Basic levels of help similar to above but reduced by savings between £6,000 and £16,000 and any other income.

You are right that leaving work because of health conditions would be accepted as good reason, but as the previous poster says financially it will be much better to stay for as long as you can.  I also don't think leaving for health reasons is compatible with JSA, you would have to claim ESA.  Although not being required to look for work doesn't mean you're not allowed to, you would be able to on your own terms.

But is the OP leaving because of their health conditions, they suggest they are fully capable of forfilling the role, just from home whcih the company currently doesnt allow...although I suspect the OP has done so since 2020, given the scant info I question why now is this an issue. 

OP I get you dont want to fully disclose your medical problems, 100% but it is extreemly difficult to give you the full and correct advice without know the full details, so therefore I would expect a level of the advice is not 100% accurate to be taken into account.  

How do you function in a day to day basis, shopping etc. Who paid for the OH review, does your employer accept this report and its "indepenant" finding?  Did you ever go back to the office after covid. 

As I understand it they're just fine doing their job from home, which they have done for 5+ years, it's just they can sense the employer for some reason wanting return to office, and are now investigating their options should work insist on no longer working from home.  If the updated OH assessment were to recommend continuing to WFH, I've already outlined the employer's options (accept, or refuse and have OP off sick and have to go through the capability process.  Or they could in theory accept and then find some other reason to terminate OP's employment - but they'd still have to justify that).

I don't think it matters how OP manages in other areas of life, because clearly the medical professionals involved decided that WFH was necessary - and OP evidently agrees since the prospect of having to return to the office is making them seriously consider leaving.  I don't understand why anyone here would question that.

the OP may be 'just fine' working from hime but the employer, for some reason, is not.

Without knowing why the employer wants the OP to return to the office  no one can say whether  the employer is warranted in wanting the OP back in the office.